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This is an example of why I love Orson so much. Orson wrote:Cadence wrote:Literal would be much better than myth. Myth is used when it is realized literal can not be true.
If we are talking about driving directions I completely agree.
If we are talking about models for self-actualization literal or not is irrelevant.
Some members are looking for driving directions to heaven, I am working to create a piece of heaven within my being.
Eloquently put, thanks orson.
😳 I am asking myself does God use myth? Or is myth a product of humans trying to understand God? Did God create or inspire the story of Adam and Eve to teach some lesson, or maybe it was some men trying to explain the origin of men and women. Did God send down the story of the flood to get people to repent, or was someone trying to explain some local disaster. So what is the origin of myth, God or man?
Old-Timer wrote:This is an example of why I love Orson so much.
Agreed. I totally have an online, gender-neutral crush on Orson.Cadence wrote:I am asking myself does God use myth? Or is myth a product of humans trying to understand God? Did God create or inspire the story of Adam and Eve to teach some lesson, or maybe it was some men trying to explain the origin of men and women. Did God send down the story of the flood to get people to repent, or was someone trying to explain some local disaster.
So what is the origin of myth, God or man?
That’s a really good question. Here’s how I would answer it.Since I don’t think the existence of God can be proved conclusively either way, the answer to your question depends on what you choose to believe. Do you believe in God? Then it becomes more possible that God inspired some myths. Do you believe in a personal, involved God? Do you believe that God’s communications to us are crystal clear and that the Bible and/or BofM are God’s perfect word? Then God didn’t inspire myths—God inspired truths. Do you believe that God’s communications to us are muddy or filtered through a human lens? Then God almost definitely inspired some myths. Do you not believe in God at all? Then myths are always created by man.
Otherwise, the answer is made up entirely of “if-then” statements and statements of probability rather than facts. For me, I waver between myths always being created by man and thinking that there’s a low-to-medium probability that some myths were inspired by a God with low involvement or a God who has decided not to offer crystal clear communication (perhaps to force us into radical use of our agency and reveal our innermost selves through difficult choices).
Cadence wrote:So what is the origin of myth, God or man?
Yes. I see evidence of both. I know that is the auto-answer for everyone trying to embrace complexity and paradox, but really scripture is a mix of the human and divine. Sometimes it is divinely human, sometimes horribly human, sometimes perfectly divine. The need to divide and polarize and label is mostly human IMO.
Cadence wrote:I am asking myself does God use myth? Or is myth a product of humans trying to understand God? Did God create or inspire the story of Adam and Eve to teach some lesson, or maybe it was some men trying to explain the origin of men and women. Did God send down the story of the flood to get people to repent, or was someone trying to explain some local disaster.
So what is the origin of myth, God or man?
Good question. man certainly creates myth, but does God? Are the parables myth? In my opinion, they are and they were a valuable teaching tool used by Jesus. So, yes, God probably does create some myth. I don’t know that we will know in this life whether many of the other stories (Adam & Eve, Noah, Moses, Abraham, etc.) were created by men or God. Does it matter? If we get the message, does it matter if it was created by God or man, or is it better if it’s created by God?
I’d say we create myth – and that God doesn’t mind that creation at all. I think what he minds is the nature of some of the myths we create and what we do with the myths we create.
In other words, I think he’s less concerned about exactly how we get where we are going and more concerned about where we are going.
People need myth. Look at our avatars on this board – Tolkienistic, Star Trek, a gray alien, Star Wars, a yeti, Hulk meets Yoda…
These are all mythic rather than purely fictional characters.
We need myth because it helps us strive for better, stimulates our dreaming and feeds our deep seated atavism.
SamBee wrote:People need myth.
Look at our avatars on this board – Tolkienistic, Star Trek, a gray alien, Star Wars, a yeti, Hulk meets Yoda…
These are all mythic rather than purely fictional characters.
We need myth because it helps us strive for better, stimulates our dreaming and feeds our deep seated atavism.
Yes we are all about myth, but we all agree it is myth. No one (at least normal people) think Spock is real. However many people believe Moroni was real.Ah you never know – maybe someone out there really DOES think Spock is/will be real! (Not impossible.)
All of these deal with archetypal needs (getting all Jungian). Spock
represents human, yes human, logic and the conflict between emotion (mother) and logic (father – Sarek) as an archetype, quite beyond fiction. He is an excellent example – you chose him as an idea(l) or type, we get that meaning easily.
Moroni falls between Spock/Yoda and Charlemagne/Elvis. He is in the same territory as Robin Hood, Santa (yes Santa) and St Christopher. He is a character believed by some to have been historical, but by others to be ahistorical – unlike Yoda/Spock. Charlemagne and Elvis are completely historical characters who have had many myths and religious features attached to them.
Moroni as archetype –
* The last survivor of a culture – Truganini (sort of)
* Burier of treasure – Caribbean pirates, Boer generals, Al Capone, Nazis
* Hermes/Mercury – as a messenger, and flying figure. Golden too. He is a messenger as an angel and as a scribe. (Always thought he looked Graeco-Roman on our temples)
* Musician
* Warrior
SamBee wrote:Ah you never know – maybe someone out there really DOES think Spock
is/will be real! (Not impossible.)
All of these deal with archetypal needs (getting all Jungian). Spock
represents human, yes human, logic and the conflict between emotion (mother) and logic (father – Sarek) as an archetype, quite beyond fiction. He is an excellent example – you chose him as an idea(l) or type, we get that meaning easily.
Moroni falls between Spock/Yoda and Charlemagne/Elvis. He is in the same territory as Robin Hood, Santa (yes Santa) and St Christopher. He is a character believed by some to have been historical, but by others to be ahistorical – unlike Yoda/Spock. Charlemagne and Elvis are completely historical characters who have had many myths and religious features attached to them.
Moroni as archetype –
* The last survivor of a culture – Truganini (sort of)
* Burier of treasure – Caribbean pirates, Boer generals, Al Capone, Nazis
* Hermes/Mercury – as a messenger, and flying figure. Golden too. He is a messenger as an angel and as a scribe. (Always thought he looked Graeco-Roman on our temples)
* Musician
* Warrior
I get it. We can creat a scale from 1 to 10. 1 being totally literal or historically real. 10 being pure myth. Elvis is 1, King Aurthur is 4, Robin Hood is 6, Moroni is 8, Spock is 10.Cadence wrote:SamBee wrote:Ah you never know – maybe someone out there really DOES think Spock
is/will be real! (Not impossible.)
All of these deal with archetypal needs (getting all Jungian). Spock
represents human, yes human, logic and the conflict between emotion (mother) and logic (father – Sarek) as an archetype, quite beyond fiction. He is an excellent example – you chose him as an idea(l) or type, we get that meaning easily.
Moroni falls between Spock/Yoda and Charlemagne/Elvis. He is in the same territory as Robin Hood, Santa (yes Santa) and St Christopher. He is a character believed by some to have been historical, but by others to be ahistorical – unlike Yoda/Spock. Charlemagne and Elvis are completely historical characters who have had many myths and religious features attached to them.
Moroni as archetype –
* The last survivor of a culture – Truganini (sort of)
* Burier of treasure – Caribbean pirates, Boer generals, Al Capone, Nazis
* Hermes/Mercury – as a messenger, and flying figure. Golden too. He is a messenger as an angel and as a scribe. (Always thought he looked Graeco-Roman on our temples)
* Musician
* Warrior
I get it. We can creat a scale from 1 to 10. 1 being totally literal or historically real. 10 being pure myth. Elvis is 1, King Aurthur is 4, Robin Hood is 6, Moroni is 8, Spock is 10.Lolol. Thanks cadence. Got a good laugh tonight. I needed that.
Yup – the scale of 1-10 is where it’s at. Legend’s in the middle somewhere. Moroni’s probably about 8, since only Mormons believe in him and religious anti-Mormons who think he was a demon. It fascinates me how we can often take the lessons taught by a Spock or Yoda, because we know they are a 10, more easily than someone that is presented as a 1 because we doubt the validity of their historicity.
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