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[Anonymous]

Ok. The past 6 years or so I have gone from always sceptical but believeing, towards being more and more sceptical, and now i consider myself a non literalist believer. Its a really nice place to be for me now. I find myself having a hard time to navigate through it though.

I love God and all the positivity it brings in my life, but with all the problems regarding kinderhook plates (JS not translating them, but saying what they contained), BoA problems (you can argue all day long if the scrolls were bigger or not, but the facsimilies are still a wrong translation), prophets being dead wrong (blacks and the priesthoos vs the new essay, adam/God etc).

I just cant really make that mesh with the stuff the church/JS taught. That things realy did happen on this and that date, that this was a real translation etc etc.

I do find great value in the teachings of the PoGP, temple theology etc. The weeping God is a very powerful and loving God to me. To make it short: I love much of the theology, but have almost no faith in the empiric truth claims that surrounds the theology.

i just have almost no literal belief in the BOM and BoA. Everytime we read it at church i cringe inside and think “yup, that name is made up, that name is made up, that idea is taken from other religious comtemporary ideas etc..” But i love the message it convays.

I love giving lessons that rock the boat but are faith promoting at the same time (I teach EQ once a month). Its hard though. Sometimes the topics are down right degrading in my view (like a recent one, that focused on the “follow the prophet” theme. I havent done home teaching for years, but would like to continue again.

I would like to go to the temple, but i cant really see myself passing the temple rec. questions. Plus that would force me to open up the can of worms to my bishop and stake pres and I just dont really want to do that.

I have reached a place in my life where i am much more open minded about everything. Instead of the church saying: No sex before marriage, then i think: Why not. If you really love someone, that is an amazing way to express that love to and with someone. Its a beatiful thing. As long as you keep it sacred/beatiful.

The church says: Dont drink a single drop of beer! And then my co-workers invite me to hang out after work and they grab a beer and just talk and relax, and im thinking: This is perfectly fine. I have absolutely no desire to get drunk, and i really cant see God minding that i drink something to relax. As long as i keep it “sacred”/positive. The same with driking wine to a good meal. I sincerely dont believe God minds at all. I feel like i would enjoy all the things he has created. As long as i use eveything he has created to positive things, how can that be bad?

Yes i know they all have a downside, but so does food, tv, computer games, whatever.

These are just a couple of examples.

My mind is working differently than it did before. I feel like the church is also hindering spiritual growth, by making people only find God one specific way. I dont believe there is only one way to find God. We all have different roads to travel to find God. If i feel like meditating and read other scriptures at the same time as going to the LDS church, it will be considered “not ok”.

How do you navigate all this?

I find it increasingly hard being a non-literal believer, in a church that is SO focused on things being literal. Once I found all the flaws in the past, my conclusion is that i can be allowed to do pretty much everything, as long as it leads me to God. So why be limited by the church and its teachings, when there is so much more beauty out there?

I want to stay in the church. Its my tribe, its a language i understand. I love the community. But that communty has so many strings attached that are tied to a literal belief.

Thanks! Im rambling a bit here and English isnt my first language:)

[Anonymous]

Good questions. You feel an affinity for the church and its community, but it doesn’t satisfy.

I found happiness in serving the non-religious community. It too had its own challenges but they were a lot easier to manage because no one was “supposed” to be Christlike in that context. I set boundaries on the strings the church could attach to me, which makes me happy. I haven’t moved someone in 3 or 4 years. Same with setting up chairs or cleaning the chapel. I have set other boundaries.

Get your spirituality from your personal study and personal prayer. Look at the church as any other organization on earth and stop trying to make the truth claims work — be agnostic about them. Reserve judgment. I like that approach because it recognizes my own inability to recognize absolute truth, while not accepting the church’s version. It keeps me humble…and it keeps options open for the future in case by some miracle all this really is a test of faith.

[Anonymous]

Bear wrote:

English isnt my first language:)

I would have never guessed. :thumbup:

As I was reading your post a scripture came to my mind.

Doctrine and Covenants 58:28 wrote:

For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves. And inasmuch as men do good they shall in nowise lose their reward.

Can’t that be a goal within Mormonism? The end game was arriving at the exact place where you’ve now arrived?

Borrowing from LDS doctrines: wrestling with the conundrum of obeying the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth and the commandment to not to partake of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil helped Adam and Eve become like the gods. Taking a step back, the overall story of Mormonism provides no shortage of conundrums to wrestle with and that wrestling can help us become like the gods.

Bear wrote:

How do you navigate all this?

I’ll quote another member at StayLDS:

cwald wrote:

Sometimes we need to quit worrying about what makes the river flow, and simply become the water.

That can mean a lot of things. How do I navigate all this? I try (I’m not always successful) to focus less on what my journey should be and focus more on where my journey takes me. One day at a time.

[Anonymous]

I agree with what SD and Nibbler have said.

For myself, I am able to focus on core gospel principles (Jesus is the Christ, love your neighbor, etc.) and view that as the gospel that I am supposed to live. The church and the gospel are not the same. I am not a literal believer in the BoM, BoA, or the Bible. There’s even a lot of D&C I don’t take literally, and other parts I ignore completely as uninspired. When all the fluff is taken away, it doesn’t appear we are meant to be gingerbread men and women whose only differences are what colors our buttons are. I don’t care a whole lot about what my neighbor (the person next to me in the pew) believes because my salvation is up to me to work out with God.

As to the temple recommend, those questions require only a yes or no answer as appropriate. You’re not being asked if you agree with the WoW, you’re being asked if you live it. Further, you’re not being asked if you live it the same way as the person asking it lives it. It’s an individual question. If you believe that having an occasional beer is not in violation of the WoW, then your answer to the question is yes – no explanation required. The other questions are very much the same, they are for you t answer for you and not for you to answer the way you think everybody else answers or is supposed to answer.

The middle way can be tough and that’s partly because it’s a little different from everybody else’s way. In truth, everyone is a cafeteria Mormon and everyone lives in the middle – but it may not appear that way. May you find the peace you seek.

[Anonymous]

You might also want to try the anthropologist approach. So you belong to a church that once had all their members go out to the desert to live in a theocratic religious commune, developed new marriage/sexual practices, and invented its own alphabet.

Sounds like an anthropologist paradise!

Sometimes it drives me crazy when people start to talk about how we are the only true church or that the prophet will never lead us astray. Then I put on my anthropologist hat and start to analyze why saying such things is important to the group narrative/identity.

It usually helps me to take the edge off. :thumbup:

[Anonymous]

Roy wrote:

Sometimes it drives me crazy when people start to talk about how we are the only true church or that the prophet will never lead us astray. Then I put on my anthropologist hat and start to analyze why saying such things is important to the group narrative/identity.

It usually helps me to take the edge off. :thumbup:

That’s usually when I pull out my tablet or phone and start reading something else. Same effect.

[Anonymous]

DarkJedi wrote:

Roy wrote:

Sometimes it drives me crazy when people start to talk about how we are the only true church or that the prophet will never lead us astray. Then I put on my anthropologist hat and start to analyze why saying such things is important to the group narrative/identity.

It usually helps me to take the edge off. :thumbup:

That’s usually when I pull out my tablet or phone and start reading something else. Same effect.

Makes me want to finish reading Armand Mauss’ “The Angel and the Beehive”.

[Anonymous]

Bear – It’s great that you do love the theology and want to stay. You’re in better shape than a lot of people right now.

I think reading, reading online, connecting in forums like this are all good ideas. I like the discussions at mormonmatters.org, reading at wheatandtares and bycommonconsent. The stories – gathered from all religions – at realclearreligion are interesting.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all your comments:) keep them coming. Currently I think I am mustering up courage to tell my close family/relatives how I feel about church and all its truth claims. But that might take a while;)

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[Anonymous]

Bear wrote:

Thanks for all your comments:) keep them coming. Currently I think I am mustering up courage to tell my close family/relatives how I feel about church and all its truth claims. But that might take a while;)

Don’t dump all at once. In this case that means you don’t have to tell them everything you think is wrong at once. Sugar coating with a heavy mix of what you do believe is also very helpful. If you feel you must tell them, small doses will probably be better received than what they might perceive as an all out attack on the church.

[Anonymous]

Sure:) I have been doing a little the past couple of years. And I’m in no way angry worth the church so I hope no will feel like I’m attacking the church. Thanks for the comment! It’s great hearing all your perspectives:)

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[Anonymous]

Bear wrote:

Sure:) I have been doing a little the past couple of years. And I’m in no way angry worth the church so I hope no will feel like I’m attacking the church. Thanks for the comment! It’s great hearing all your perspectives:)

Sometimes when someone dismisses or invalidates my comment, I can go on and on and on providing backup examples to prove that my perspective is valid. This is where I might land myself into trouble. If I were to reveal my doubts to close family, I would need to have a plan in place for what to say if they say something dismissive like “The church is true/perfect, but the people aren’t.”

[Anonymous]

I would suggest listening to the Mormon transitions podcast (I think it was the fist and the 7th episodes). They have some very good advice. I am still studying this same topic. Take your time.

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[Anonymous]

Thanks everyone:)

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[Anonymous]

LookingHard wrote:

I would suggest listening to the Mormon transitions podcast (I think it was the fist and the 7th episodes). They have some very good advice. I am still studying this same topic. Take your time.

You will probably want to listen to episode 8 as well: Telling Loved Ones about your Faith Transition

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