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As some of you guys might know , I am on the HC and next months topic is on Testimonies, Since going through my faith crisis I have been very careful with my preparation on my talks because I want to be comfortable expressing my opinions and feelings without bearing my soul to much but also remaining true to the new things I have learned. I would like to speak about how testimonies are increasing, staying the same or decreasing but also how they can change over time as we learn and grow. I’m really trying to come up with a more middle of the road approach. I want to try some thing like “WE need all types of testimonies here at church, not just the strong ones and that we want to lean more on our testimony of the concepts of Christ and his life and teaching and not so much on what some Prophet in the latter days has said or did. Some times I think I should just take some conference talk and rehash it but that’s usually what most HC does and I don’t think I would be comfortable. I have given this a lot of thought but I really wanted some input from my friends here so please give me any ideas you might have. I’m looking forward to your thoughts.
Dear Church0333, I wish I could hear your talk about testimony. I could probably use it myself.
In my mind, there’s nothing wrong with saying “I have faith something’s true.”
church0333 wrote:I want to try some thing like “WE need all types of testimonies here at church.”
Have I got a deal for you! Please read the talk that I gave on this subject. You are welcome to use any portion that may strike you as useful.
http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2542&hilit=+testimony+talk It was well received and some people did seem genuinely thankful for my sharing…But, the HCman that spoke immediately after me began his completely unrelated talk by stating that he
DID KNOWthis, that, and the other. I couldn’t help that feel that this was an attempt to smooth over my talk – that he had noticed that the words – “I know” were absent and he wanted to correct the deficiency. I don’t take it too hard because I have come to understand “bearing of testimonies” to be more of a performance of accepted word rituals than an actual communication forum.
A good article to the anthropology of testimony bearing is found here:
https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/081-20-27.pdf Good luck!
church0333 wrote:… I would like to speak about how testimonies are increasing, staying the same or decreasing but also how they can change over time as we learn and grow…
I can appreciate and relate with your desire to be respectful of others’ testimonies, as well as your own.Sometimes it feels a bit like a tight rope walk, doesn’t it?
😆 I’m excited for you!
What an opportunity to share a part of the true gospel…
Gospel = good news
One of the GA’s said we believe in being born again & again… eternal progression, baby! (Actually, not the baby part.
“An egotist will never get anywhere in this world because he thinks he’s already there.” -M.J. Ashton
(LIVING our testimonies)… “No man can compare himself with his ideals & be proud & haughty.” -A.R. Ivins
“Search the scriptures, search the prophets, & learn what portion of them belongs to you.” -Joseph Smith
(Some parts of the scripture or of prophets words resonate or “spiritually belong” to us individually, more than other parts & at different times.)
“Men are that they might have joy”… I think this is important to remember & harmonize along with striving to progress & increase our testimonies.
“The only heaven for you is that which you make yourselves.” -Brigham Young
Keep on keepin’ on!
Members should not be “luke warm” or else (according to Rev. 3:16) they will be spit out! Ooh – yuck!
We shouldn’t be too afraid of being imperfect -of pushing the envelope, exploring, learning.
My sister’s home teacher said that the thing that imperfection hates most is imperfection.
“Church membership is not passive security but continuing opportunity.” -Neal A. Maxwell
“It is the business of man to find the spiritual meaning of earthly things.” -John A. Widstoe
“Searching for truth is an obligation.” -R.L. Evans
“No man can hope to find out the truth without investigation.” -George F. Richards (And I’d add… continual searching, since truth is dynamic, not static.)
“If we value house, if we value lands, if we value good name, if we value even life itself more than we do the truth we are unworthy of the truth.” -G.Q. Cannon
“Any open-minded search for truth requires courage, constancy, & humility.” -H.B. Brown
Christ (who represents light and truth) said, “He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: & he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life (pride) shall lose it: & he that loseth his life (pride) for my sake shall find it.” -Matt 10:37-39
Good luck on speaking, Church!
I gave a talk recently on faith, and I ended up only having about 5 minutes – so I focused on a few things I feel confident saying I know and a few other things in which I only can say I have faith. It was very well received in my ward. You might share the scripture that talks about the gift to know and the gift to believe – making the point that a testimony can consist of different things and even different levels of understanding.
Hi church0333, I feel awkward sharing my thoughts about testimonies because my experience with the LDS church has been a 25-year trek through the desert with an “oasis moment” every five or ten years. A few months ago I entered one of these moments and am feeling a very solid, very hard-edged force pulling me back to the Church. I don’t know yet where it will lead.
I like your idea of talking about different types of testimonies. I would just add that “testimony diversity” is much more than just strength and weakness, or various points that you might plot on a single straight line. It’s a multidimensional type of diversity, and the testimonies of different people might not be different points on the same line or even in the same plane. They might diverge in really fundamental and skewed ways. Of course, all of this is just my opinion, so don’t take this as new canon.
Many of the testimonies I have heard over the years make certain assumptions that I don’t believe are accurate. One of those assumptions is that the word “true” has only one meaning. When LDS people hear, “The Book of Mormon is true,” they often regard “true” as a synonym for “historically accurate.” But I just checked my dictionary, and “true” has 12 different meanings. “True” can, of course, mean “accurate or free of falsehood,” but it can also mean “correctly aligned.” We say a compass points “true north,” or we talk about a “straight and true” path. I seem to recall hearing carpenters talk about perfectly straight surfaces as “true.” This was always how I regarded the Book of Mormon, as correctly aligned with God regardless of its origin. It may be free of falsehood and may be historically accurate as well, but that’s not why I regard the Book of Mormon as true. The Book of Mormon teaches certain principles, and people who follow the Book of Mormon are led into correct alignment with God. This satisfies my definition of “true.”
Of course, we have a slight issue with Joseph Smith claiming the Book of Mormon is historically accurate. If it’s not, don’t we have a horrible problem on our hands?
Maybe not. Another assumption I hear in testimonies is connected to our understanding of the concept of a “prophet.” When most people think of “prophet,” they think of a Moses-like figure descending a mountain with stone tablets that literally contain the dictated commands of God. I would bet that many LDS people think of Joseph Smith as a Mosaic celebrity who functions as a robotic proxy for God. I have always regarded prophets as artists, not orators who channel the exact words of God. When I was at the Louvre last month, I didn’t try to analyze the truth or falsehood of the paintings. I didn’t wonder whether the Mona Lisa was a real woman or not. I just experienced the paintings on their own terms and contemplated the ways in which they changed me and my understanding of the world.
I really don’t know the origin of the Book of Mormon. I have some doubts about how historically accurate it is, and some parts of its creation (like the missing 116 pages) strike me as a less-than-perfect unfolding of God’s will. I tend to believe that Joseph Smith was not deliberately deceiving people. If he was secretly dictating from a previously written document, then the missing 116 pages wouldn’t have been a big deal, because he could simply have re-dictated those missing pages from his secret source. I think the evidence supports the belief that the Book of Mormon flowed from Joseph Smith’s mind. Maybe part or all of it was inspired by God, but in ways we will never understand. The important point is that the Book of Mormon set into motion a vast unfolding of something good and noble: a worldwide church centered on the teachings of Jesus. And if that church brings us into correct alignment with God, isn’t that the only important thing?
Several years ago now, there was a great letter from the First Presidency that talked about how a testimony should be centered on Christ and the “restoration”, (not JS the BoM etc.) I would talk about the importance of having the Savior be the basis of your testimony. Quote:Dear Brethren:
We are concerned that in some instances, members who desire to bear their testimonies in fast and testimony meeting do not have the opportunity to do so. Bishoprics are encouraged to help all people learn to express a brief, heartfelt testimony of the Savior, His teachings, and the Restoration, so that more members may have the opportunity to participate.
Parents and teachers should help children learn what a testimony is and when it is appropriate for them to express it. It may be best to have younger children learn to share their testimonies at such times as family home evening or when giving talks in Primary until they are old enough to do so in a fast and testimony meeting.
We encourage bishoprics to teach these important principles to priesthood and auxiliary leaders and to all ward members.
I just want to thank all of you for your great ideas. I can feel my talk forming already and I plan on using many of the thoughts you have shared. I am in Utah visiting kids and grand kids so I don’t have much time but I really do appreciate you guys. Happy new year and God bless. There is a quote somewhere from Brigham Young about how one of the testimonies that impressed him most came from a simple man, who could not speak well (may have had speech impediment). Anyway, the upshot of this is, that it’s not the polished testimonies with the set phrases that win people over, it’s sincerity. I am active in the Toastmasters organization, and I have learned two sure-fire methods to grab your audience by the throat and keep them focused like a laser beam on what you are saying. Method 1: Begin by saying, “I have a terrible confession to make…” and dive deeply into some terrible sin or error you have made in your life. Unclear whether this would be appropriate for an LDS testimony talk, but your audience will hang on your every word.
Method 2: Talk about the audience, not you. This is even more powerful than Method 1. Give examples of how people in your ward act out their testimony in deeds instead of words, and how their actions have inspired you. (Avoid mentioning anyone by name, but if you must then get that person’s permission before you speak.)
The last Fast and Testimony meeting I went to was many years ago. I have forgotten everything from that meeting except for one thing: a woman who described how the ward responded with a stream of compassion and kindness when the woman’s marriage was stressed to the breaking point. Everything else I heard that day, sadly, was parrot chatter.
Maybe you already gave your talk, but I noticed this thread because I have to speak about the Holy Ghost this Sunday. It is hard for many of the reasons you stated. Feeling good about something doesn’t seem to me to be a good way to know if it’s true or not anymore. I am trying to focus more of my talk on our actions, not just our feelings. John 7:17, “If any man will DO his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.” Also, I plan on talking about the fruits of the Spirit in Galations 5:22. I speak this Sunday and I’m not quit ready. I have used a lot of thought or ideas from here and I think that it will go okay. I’m not great with the computer but I will try to post it when I am done. Good luck with your assignment. Like the song says, accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative. Think of the good things in the church.
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