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Mine are – and I simply teach them to think about everything and follow their hearts and minds – that we all see through a glass, darkly – and that it’s important to allow everyone else to believe whatever makes sense to them. I teach them to be themselves and to let others be themselves – and I started that at birth, basically.
wayfarer wrote:hope wrote:wayfarer – could be we know each other. Small world. I was too young for the all church dance festivals, but got to do a couple of the dance festivals at the Rose Bowl in the mid 70’s.
i am east coast…was on mission mid 70s – never in california. parallel paths for sure.I grew up in Virginia and did the mission in 1977-79. Any connection?
Out of our family of seven, three of us continue to go to church on a regular basis. Now, having said that, as of two weeks ago a chunk of our ward was put into another ward (we are in that chunk), and I have taken this opportunity to disappear for a little while. This can mean anything from going to different wards anonymously, attending different churches altogether, or simply doing something else as a family. I have asked all of our children what they think about what is happening and what I am going through. Truth is, four of them have been experiencing doubts for quite awhile, but have not spoken to me about these doubts until recently. They are so surprised but really happy that I am where I am. We are not quite sure where this journey is leading, but know one thing for sure, It is bringing all of us closer together.
My husband has been inactive (yes, I said ‘inactive’ instead of the politically correct ‘less active’
It is important to understand that we have been one of THE families people have looked up to and have counted on through the years. We have been active, did everything we were asked to do, have been active in our community, etc. I know our friends would be SO surprised and taken back if they knew what was happening in our lives, especially to me.
Last night my husband said, as if speaking to the General Authorities, “We gave our whole life to you (the church) and you deceived us! We went on missions teaching and testifying to people what we thought was the truth. We have sacrificed and served our entire lives. We have given everything…and you couldn’t give us the truth?” He hit the nail on the head for me. I am not angry, I am flabbergasted. I feel I have come out of the Matrix.
Hope, I think it is so great to be so open and honest with your kids! I love it. I read the article on staylds.com on how to stay active. I LOOOVED it. I don’t know how I didn’t read that before. It was really helpful.
I am really trying not to be angry with the church and that is helping me. When I start to get angry I start feeling really depressed. But when I try to see it from the church as an origination and NOT as GOD it helps to puts it into perspective. I really think it is that I have been engrained to take things as “Doctrine” and “not to question”. I am also trying to understand and see how much of this is my parents and how much is church. My husband comes from a much more loving family and he doesn’t seem angry when starts to question and believes differently with something he just says “oh well, I guess they meant well”. He has never questioned anything huge though.. and I don’t want to be the one to pull him down the rabbit hole if he isn’t ready. I don’t like feeling like this, so why would I inflict this pain on him. Yet he is my companion and how can I be best friends with him yet hide my deepest feelings?
I on the other hand came from a pretty abusive background. Lots of addiction, abuse, sexual abuse, lots of catholic influences as well. GOD SHOULD BE FEARED, or ELSE. I am sure all of this has to be worked out too before I can let go of the anger. I am in the emotional healing realm and I really do believe that our perceptions of God are greatly influenced by our parents and God and church are so interrelated to me right now. I am trying to separate without separating myself from God and really fighting the feeling of being tricked.
I just read the OFFICIAL doctrine of the church in that same article I previously mentioned.. wow, hardly anything is official doctrine. It is all what the GA or Prophet deemed necessary for the time. I am a perturbed by that and trying to understand when it is that I started believing all or nothing and to make sure we talk about this in our next FHE (if my hubby agrees… I am still having a hard time talking about this to him.. I have to take it slow.. esp where I don’t know where I stand. Only that when I pray I honestly feel that I need to be patient and not do anything rash like take my garments off or start drinking).
Hope, your feelings of frustration are very understandable for sure. Let me just ask you a guestion, in all the years of doing the mission and teaching did you ever think that you were purposely deceiving anyone? Part of my anger and yes I was angry was I thought that I had been lied to, by my mission presidents, past SP and bishops and regional reps and others but I have been in leadership positions and I preached or taught what I believed and I wasn’t trying to deceive anyone. Yes, I do believe that most or all of the GAs know the issues and have been less then forth coming but I don’t know their motives. My wife knows the issues (kind of) and they just are not a big deal to her but they are to me but they are becoming less as time go on. At least as far as the anger goes. I think taking some time might be a good idea but please go slow and don’t let new emotions get the best of you. Very few people actually lie about stuff like religion and their beliefs. I try very, very hard to be careful about throwing that charge out there – especially generically and in an all-encompassing manner by use of the infamous “they”. My doing that is as much a “lie” as anything most of “them” have said – since that charge simply isn’t accurate for most of “them”. I’ve said in multiple threads that we need to be very careful about calling people liars simply because they see things differently than we do. We would scream if someone did it to us, so we shouldn’t be doing it others – generally.
church0333 – No, I never thought I was deceiving anyone, because I truly believed in the information I had studied my entire life. Having found out only recently that it wasn’t all of the information…well, that is what is bothering me and the fact that all of these missionaries going out into the world are teaching things, like Joseph Smith translated the plates while they were physically in the same room with him. Telling people that Joseph Smith instead put his head in a hat and looked at a stone as the way he received the writings of the Book of Mormon, while not appealing and seemingly ridiculous, at least it is factual. Let us decide for ourselves after giving us a full disclosure. As a missionary, I was ill prepared to deal with some of the questions I was asked, and looking back I’m very surprised at the answers I gave investigators about such topics as Blacks and the Priesthood. I went out in 1979 so the revelation was quite new, which was wonderful in my mission because we taught of lot of Haitians. I think I said something about fence sitters in the pre-mortal existence. I told one Catholic man that he belonged to the great and abominable church of the devil and even showed him scriptures in the Book of Mormon to back that up!
😮 I am certain the Lord has quite the sense of humor and makes up the difference for our honest attempts.I suppose what it all boils down to is this: I am so thankful for my experiences in the Church and the choices I made because of my membership in the Church. But because of my recent studying, I am taking a step back and figuring out, prayerfully, what it is I now believe. There are so many dimensions to being a member of the Church; it is all encompassing. What do I want my life to look like at this point and into the future? I am taking it really slow. I tend to have moments when I feel like screaming.
:crazy: That is why I decided to temporarily disappear. I did not want to jump into a new ward at this point. Up until now, I have always jumped into the ward and stake with everything I have…so this is quite foreign to me. But I must say, it feels really, really, really good. Unwinding and peeling back layers of onion, as it were, has been really good for my soul and for my relationships.I love the Saviour and continue seeking His guidance.
Quote:Very few people actually lie about stuff like religion and their beliefs. I try very, very hard to be careful about throwing that charge out there – especially generically and in an all-encompassing manner by use of the infamous “they”. My doing that is as much a “lie” as anything most of “them” have said – since that charge simply isn’t accurate for most of “them”.
I’ve said in multiple threads that we need to be very careful about calling people liars simply because they see things differently than we do. We would scream if someone did it to us, so we shouldn’t be doing it others – generally.
Ray, you are right about this. Thanks for the kind reminder.
🙂 I hope that you got my point that what I first thought was a lie was what they had been taught and believed. As I said I believe many of the GAs truly believe what they are doing is of God and holding things back is good for the church. I don’t agree with that approach but I don’t think that it makes them liars. It does make me angry at times. Enjoy your break, catch your breath and decide if you want to see the church change with you or without because one way or another the church will change. I am voting with my butt and keep it in the seats for now and try to bring any change to my piece of pie. I think that I am making a difference and for me that is enough. But this time I am going to do it my way armed with a few more facts and thinking and checking for myself. Good luck in your move and keep us upto date. Old-Timer wrote:Very few people actually lie about stuff like religion and their beliefs.I try very, very hard to be careful about throwing that charge out there – especially generically and in an all-encompassing manner by use of the infamous “they”. My doing that is as much a “lie” as anything most of “them” have said – since that charge simply isn’t accurate for most of “them”. I’ve said in multiple threads that we need to be very careful about calling people liars simply because they see things differently than we do. We would scream if someone did it to us, so we shouldn’t be doing it others – generally.
while I agree that we should not be calling people and the church liars, i take exception to the statement i highlighted above. i think lying about beliefs is quite rampant in churches and christianity: proclaiming one’s doubts is simply not done by the vast majority, and I think that such inherent dishonesty to oneself is caustic. we all have doubts.Welcome Hope. Guess what! There is hope! I share much of what you have said. One needs to separate the pure gospel from the church. One needs to enjoy the company of members and non-members alike.
And I realize you can have a strong, beautiful family culture with, or without the church. The church can be a great support to youth, but I believe as parents, we must continually inoculate our children from the unhealthy, cultural attitudes like the ones you are recognizing from your family.
On an interesting note, my daughter has been struggling with whether she wants to be a stay at home Mom. We talked, and I shared the adv and disadv with her. She asked my opinion, and indicated she should never abandon pursuing a career in case her husband dies, etcetera (she wants to get married some day, so that is not an issue). She also knows that for some families, it’s actually damaging to the family to have the woman stay at home. But for some, it is the right decision.
But she watches Super Nanny on television constantly, and is very interested in it. She is highly disciplined and organized and an in-demand baby sitter and she is constantly prodding the parents (myself) to adopt certain routines. She is fascinated by ways of running a household effeciently, while still having strong expectations of everyone in the family (and that includes a husband) to take responsiblity for their own organization, and for contributing to the organization of the general family interests.
We talked about her interest in the SuperNanny show, and I commented that passionately managing a home is something that seems to line up with her personal strengths. She agreed with me. But she knows she has my full support to be a career woman if she wants. So, if my children buy into the textbook roles of men and women in the church, it will be, because it is an expression of their strengths, their will, and what is best for them. I feel totally comfortable with that…happiness is the object and design of our existence. People are diverse, and therefore, the path to happiness is also diverse.
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