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Hello, I guess I am writing this because I just need to put this out for someone to read. I have been a member of the church since I was 8 years old, have served a full time mission and have been active all my life. Last year my wife of 20 years decided she wanted a divorce after 20 years of marriage. The divorce is really not the point, but the way it was handled in the church got me thinking. I always believed that a Temple Marriage was forever and that if a person walked away from it without cause that there were consequences. Soon after she left there was a temple trip and she was allowed in the Temple. This got my mind whirring, and other things that had always troubled me came to the surface. The two main things were polygamy and blacks not getting the priesthood until 1978. I had heard the unofficial reasons, but never anything concrete. So I went out and starting digging, I of course found the haters and nuts, but I soon found Mormon Think, and there it all was, nicely researched and cited with the original documents. Well after reading these things carefully I found that there were serious problems. Adding to that is the Book of Abraham, which I did not know had been rediscovered in the sixties, and does not match in any way what Joseph Smith said it meant. I am still researching, as I want to be sure that the sources are sound, but if they are I am done. Don’t get me wrong I think the church is a good organization and I value the standards and morals that it teaches, but the facts are not matching the stories that are officially told. I want to go to my Bishop and show him these things, but I worry that he will just brush them aside and tell me to pray. I believe in prayer, but some of the facts have to line up.
So disappointing, I really don’t know what to do. To be honest I just want to get away, but I still have a 14 year old daughter that lives with me and she has had things unstable for too long already. I also teach the Elders Quorum lessons, and I now just find it mind numbing. I really just want to teach all the new things I have learned and have a discussion on those things. I guess I feel trapped, I’m just not the kind of person that likes to do things that I don’t believe in.
Welcome, mate. Hopefully you’re able to find a way to maintain that part of your faith that you feel is genuine. I’m so glad you’re reaching out here. You’ll get a lot of virtual hugs, whether you want them or not, so I hope you don’t have virtual space issues. If you feel like you’re bottoming out, well, you just might be. And that’s good news. That means it gets better from here. I don’t know the exact path forward for you, but I suggest you approach any major real-life decisions very slowly. I understand very well the need the spill it all to those close to you or, especially, to just run away. In fight or flight situations, I almost always choose flight. That hasn’t usually improved things. There is a healthy middle way between fight or flight. It takes patience, charity, and courage to navigate it, but a lot of us here are doing just that and are regularly surprised by the peace and joy of it. Right now you are feeling spiritual vertigo. You’re emptying your vessel. But over time you’ll fill it back up, and this will all seem more like a journey than a catastrophe.
In the mean time, this is a safe place to question and vent. Go wild.
Welcome. I just want to second the advice to take a deep breath and not spew things quickly or forcefully to others. Pres. Uchtdorf gave a wonderful talk a while ago (standard for him, I know) about the counter-intuitive need to slow down in times of turbulence. It’s great advice. Don’t do anything drastic in the heat of new emotion. That almost never ends well.
Completely empathise with the shock you’re in right now. Definitely take your time. I almost walked out after a few weeks of studying. I’ve decided to take 12 months to work it out. I’m half way through. I will probably give myself an extension! FWIW, Mormon Think is a very comprehensive website, but their weakness is in over-representing the critical view and under-representing the response from defenders of Mormonism (FAIR). I think I’ve read nearly every page of that site and found it very difficult to read, but had to remind myself that it is run by people who have publicly stated that their active objective is to get people out of the church.
A few thoughts… some of the stuff you’re finding out does have an alternative view.
http://en.fairmormon.org/Main_Page – useful, though they try to give an answer to every concern when sometimes there’s no answer to be had.Jeff Lindsay’s website is also a useful place to read. It’s got quite a lot of info on BoA:
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_Abraham.shtml I like Jeff because he’s not a scholar, he’s a reader. He has the ability to read 100s of articles and books and summarise them in layman’s language.
Some issues do not have a satisfying answer anywhere. Blacks and the priesthood? I have found no adequate answer. For now I’ve put it on my mental shelf.
I think it’s also worth reading the fairmormon reply to the Mormon Think articles. Not because they have it right, but because MT don’t give as much column inches to FAIR as they do to the critics on MT: http://en.fairmormon.org/Criticism_of_Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink Dude…what is it with us Elders Quorum Teachers getting in to faith crisis? Your story is mine to a tee except for the divorce part. Stick around here…keep your anger in check…no anger..don’t worry it will find you as i tis part of the grieving process, be ready and ride it out…don’t do anything crazy during that stage…lots of folks who do never get out of that stage due to the damage they do to themselves and others and then can’t face it so they stay angry at the church rather than owning their own bad behaviour.
This is a good place if you want to find a somewhat peacefull road…if you want to get pissed and do whatever you want as a form of rebellion…well there are other places for that
👿 but give the middle way a try first…I think it is healthiest.Sometimes putting your frustrations and anger into writing is valuable. (Within board rules) rant as long and loud as you like, especially on this thread. It’s therapeutic and the great thing about this board is no-one will hold you to it. I do a 180 u-turn on a weekly basis of how I’m feeling.
Once it’s in writing, go back a few days later and re-read it. You may read through and think ‘hmm, maybe I don’t feel quite that horrible about it.’ As long as it’s only jangling around in your head it will always feel a lot worse.
And yes, my therapist did teach me that
Thanks for your kind words; I think you are correct in giving it some time, and not doing anything rash. I have a friend that I mentioned that I was having doubts, and I could see his mind just close off. I really just want to discuss this with others, so I can have a rational discussion. For instance the Pearl of Great Price, there is no support for it. I was looking to see if I could find something that at least showed that perhaps there was a difference in interpretation, or that there was a grey area, but what I found was there is no support. I would like to find something that shows that there is some support. I appreciate the references to the other sites and I have been checking them out also. However I like Mormon Think, because they go back to the source documents. For instance they go back to Joseph Smiths original hand written account of the first vision, which is completely different from what is in Joseph Smith History. Also the account was changed multiple times and was not even mentioned until 20 years after the event. I would think that God the Father and Jesus Christ appearing to you would be the first thing you talked about.
Sorry I am blathering on, but I just feel like a flood gate of new information has come to my attention. I think I am going to continue my research for the next year, and make sure that I leave no stone unturned. But until then I will just be quiet in public and not rock the boat. I must say that I do not feel like I am going down a wrong road, to be honest I feel focused, I feel a sense of relief, that this thoughts I have had are not without merit.
Welcome! westfield1825 wrote:I really just want to discuss this with others, so I can have a rational discussion.
You have come to the right place. There is so much ground to cover, my suggestion is to search out a good feel of the different paths and mindsets available before you. Contrary to what most of us always have assumed it’s not all black/white – all in/out whether they realize it or not all members hold onto the parts that resonate with them.
Hang in there!
Quote:I think I am going to continue my research for the next year, and make sure that I leave no stone unturned. But until then I will just be quiet in public and not rock the boat. I must say that I do not feel like I am going down a wrong road, to be honest I feel focused, I feel a sense of relief, that this thoughts I have had are not without merit.
Welcome. As a new member myself, I can say that this is a wonderful place to express your thoughts without fear of being judged. I think your idea of researching for the next year or so is a great one. One thing I might recommend is spending equal time trying to find evidence that the church is what it claims to be. For me, that means every hour I spend looking at troubling things, I spend an hour reading things that try to show that “the church is true”. After all, if you spend a whole year looking at nothing but the warts, you may think that there’s nothing else.
Good luck as you walk this difficult path.
Just one word of caution: MormonThink does go back to the source documents, but they also do it in a way that is pretty much exclusively negative. They “dig up the dirt”, but I don’t see much in the way of compassionate attempt to understand – to take the dug up dirt and replant a garden, if you will. They aren’t objective in any way that I can see, but they present as if they are – and, in many cases I’ve seen, they only go back to the source documents that support the view they are trying to encourage.
Welcome! I have to admit I liked MormonThink as well. It’s laid out so well. I was literally consumed as I read through the articles there. But I agree whole heartedly with Mackay and others. They don’t give fair time to both sides and as such I think if it was my only source I’d come away very bitter. I wish there was a site that was laid out exactly like MT but was written by active FAITHFUL members and certainly not apologist. It would be great to see the issues, admit there are no good answers on some of them, maybe give alternate ways in which the issue may be perceived. I mean, I would love to see how someone like Terryl Givens or Richard Bushman reconciles each issue. Alas, I know it won’t happen. I think to do so would likely make them appear much less orthodox than they currently appear and that would not be good for them and where they are in their journey. But one can dream… 😯 On newordermormon.org they have these rules for disengagement that you should take seriously… http://newordermormon.org/rules-of-disengagement.phphttp://newordermormon.org/rules-of-disengagement.php” class=”bbcode_url”> I completely sympathize with you. I haven’t found what I consider to be good answers. It comes down to whether you want to believe or not. You have it doubly difficulty because your wife is leaving you. Your world got rocked hard… twice. However, if you leave the church now it will give her ammunition to disparage you with. “See, I did the right thing. He’s not a good person. He doesn’t even believe the church is true any more.”
Although I don’t think the church is true anymore either, I would advise you to think through to the consequences of just jumping out, before you do so. There are very good and loving people in the church. Your friends and relatives in the church may be a great support for you in an obviously very trying time of your life and you risk losing them as well if you leave now and that would leave you completely alone. Don’t start sinking your sorrows in alcohol and other women just yet… Singing hymns actually brings me peace.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwFHsX6omvIhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwFHsX6omvI” class=”bbcode_url”> Wish I could come hang out with you and do something to ease your pain.
Dear New – I have found a lot of wisdom here. I was disoriented and frantic in the beginning. I just wanted OUT of the problem.
Reading here was a lifesaver. I was able to slow down, spread out my panic attacks and not lose sight of the people in my “real life.”
I’m sorry you’re also dealing with a divorce and all the attendant issues there. Best wishes.
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