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Lately I’ve been having intense internal spiritual conflict. I’ve been an active LDS member my whole life (I’m 23), and over the past few months have uncovered historical church facts that have changed everything. Im not sure where I stand, but I’ve become so tired of trying to defend highly controversial issues that are truly indefensible….im just exhausted. I denied certain “anti-mormon” facts that were thrown at me on my mission and now find out most of these things were true… how can this be? How could I have devoted so much of my life to something that only slightly resembled the true story? I think of my mission and think of how obsessively obedient I was, I cringe! But it was pounded into my head over and over and over. Thinking that I tortured myself striving for perfection before and especially on my mission and now seeing how truly disturbing the truth about church history is… it just makes me have a swirl of emotions ranging from hurt, sadness, resentment, and deep frustration. I never in a million Years thought I would be saying these things. I was so valiant, righteous and convinced.
Since returning home Ive gotten married to a woman who comes from the absolute definition of a perfect, devout, Mormon family. I’ve expressed some of my concerns but it usually results in her crying and telling me that this can’t be possible because her patriarchal blessing says her husband will be a righteous and prayful leader.
I’m not evem sure why I’m writing this post. I’m just tired of feeling isolated with these intense feelings. I feel I’ve lost everything (perhaps my soul) yet at the same time feel liberated.
I’m not expecting anyone here to solve my problems, but advice from those of you who feel you have beneficial counsel would be deeply appreciated! Feel free to ask me any questions if more details will be helpful.
Thank you!
I wish I had more time to respond, but I just wanted to say welcome to our ward. I think you will find that so many of us share similar stories and feelings. I hope you will find peace.
In my experience I find do that it is helpful to view it as a grieving process. It eb and flows.. Ups and downs. There is denial, anger, bitterness, numbness, resolution.. Sometimes all I the same day.
I feel for your wife as well as for you. It isn’t easy on either end. I have to often remind myself of what it would be like if the shoe were on the other foot and it was him having the faith transition instead….
Hope to hear more from you.
Welcome. I’m glad you decided to post an introduction. I certainly know how you feel, as do many others here. I hope we can be helpful to you. For me it has been helpful having an outlet and being able to talk about what I’m feeling churchwise. Quote:How could I have devoted so much of my life to something that only slightly resembled the true story?
Quote:I never in a million Years thought I would be saying these things. I was so valiant, righteous and convinced.
That mirrors many of my feelings.I have found that taking things slowly and finding out how this can be a time for growth has been the best approach for me. Also, knowing that others have had similar experiences has made me feel a bit saner.
Glad you are here.
Tough situation! I would suggest perusing this board as you will probably find somewhere, some discussion on any of the issues you struggle with. Here you can express your own doubts with little fear of reprisal. As for your wife, my suggestion would be to back off a bit. A spouse’s change in faith status can be very scary for the other partner because of its long term implications. There can be topics between spouses where one has to tread carefully (in-laws, children, finances, etc). That’s not to say you never talk about these things but you learn the right way to discuss it. Welcome. So many of us have had experiences like yours and struggle. I relate to so much to some of things you have said, including your questions about obedience, the wife who doesn’t understand, and the feelings of isolation. On the latter, this board has been my salvation – I now know there are many more with these same feelings and with whom I can honestly share. My advice to you is advice I have given before: Take it slow, don’t dump all at once, and concentrate on what you do believe. My questions and doubts are not so much historical as doctrinal (that Patriarchal Blessing of your wife’s for instance) but this applies to all. I also second what Gerald said – look around here, even use the search function, and I’m sure will find what you seek. Likewise, this is just a good place to vent every now and then.
Although your own issues are personal and unique, the situation you are in — feeling a bit hoodwinked, testimony rocked, and having the conflict of family expectations to deal with is something we all face. I have found that StayLDS is like a talking journal, where you can take it one issue at a time. Post topics about things you are grappling with, experience the landscape of opinion and responses, and then go forward with your own approach to being a Mormon with the concerns you have.
For example, your wife’s patriarchal blessing says her husband will be a prayerful and committed leader (I can’t remember the exact words you said). Did it say that is has to be in the church? You can be that kind of leader in a variety of contexts.
I find LDS people are more than willing to put their own meaning on the ambiguity found in patriarchal blessings and the scriptures. Use that to your advantage and help her see that you can be such a leader in your family, in the community, or in your full-time work eventually. Or, you can find ways to be such a leader within the church in callings that dont’ conflict with your testimony issues. Such callings are like social activities person, doing the weekly activities with you, organizing primary activities, stake activities, but not teaching callings, priesthood leadership etcetera. You can be a fabulous home teacher and never teach a gospel lesson with most families, particularly less active ones. Find your niche where you can keep your wife happy and preserve your inner peace at the same time. Such is the nature of a middle way within Mormonism. If there are expectations you will be a Bishop, Stake President or some of these other high status callings, pull the “do not seek after callings” card that I have heard used many times to keep people from being ambitious in the church. The culture speaks against position-seeking, so use that to your advantage — such as Stephen R Covey being called as a primary teacher. Just a few thoughts…
Welcome. You’re definitely not alone in this, and it’s so hard. Have you read any of the articles on the main site? I found a number of them to be enormously helpful. Thank you everyone for your responses! I appreciate what everyone has said, all of it has helped me feel like I’m amongst people who can relate, and that makes a world of difference. Especially here at BYU-I where your hard set to find anyone who doesn’t have the mainstream view of the church and what it means to live as a Mormon. The suggestion to take it slow with my wife was spot on. I’ve been very careful about what I say and how I say it, and I think it some degree things are better. She let me express a few of my concerns, which was great but there’s never been a back and forth discussion where I’m really able to talk openly without trying to be “converted” back to my old ways of thinking.
Silentdawning, thats a good idea about the patriarchal blessing. I don’t think it’ll fly, but worth a try! Haha.
I’ve talked to my bishop about my concerns, and hes said that a lot of RMs have come to him and feel like theyve been “hoodwinked”, or played the fool. My bishop is extremely caring, but I feel bad bcuz I know he feels helpless to answer any questions (bcuz there are no real answers). I can tell he isn’t convinced himself about some of the apologetic responses he offers.
I’m also in a tough spot bcuz my current calling is a clerk in the stake. The stake presidency are wonderful men but everything is so black and white in their view. I really feel like I don’t fit in at church, byui, or with my in-laws. After learning the truth that I was ignorant of, I realize that so many aspects of the church are more likely cultural than 100% divinely inspired. Ive dedicated so much time, energy and pain to something that isn’t what I always thought. For example, on my mission I believed all the mission rules were straight from Gods mouth. I felt miserable often bcuz I could never live it entirely. But I was taught by all my leaders it was the “book of blessings” and would give me power. Now I think a lot of the rules we’re just to prevent the church from being sued. Thinking back on what I believed, How zealous I was while being so ignorant of the facts hurts.
Question for everyone, is it possible to be active and be able to bite your tongue? I still love many aspects of the church, but there’s times where whats being taught simply isn’t accurate (for instance last Sundays lesson JS) and I feel so disingenuous….
Anyways, I have more to say ans want to respond more of your posts, and will do so later when I have more time!
It is possible to be active and bite your tongue. It’s sometimes easier to just not put yourself in the situation – that is read scriptures or talks from a GA you do like (Have you read Pres. Uchtdorf’s October address?) instead of listening, or simply skipping Sunday School. Welcome. Yes, it’s possible to be active and bite your tongue – but, over time, it also is possible to learn to say things in a way that others will accept, or, at least, not take as threatening. It takes patience and charity, but that’s part of what we are seeking anyway, right?
Just to say it, your situation at BYU-I is harder than many other places. That’s a unique place.
Welcome to the forum. Sorry you’re going through a tough time. Hope we can provide some support. ktmxr, Welcome to the forum. I’m sorry that you are going through this. Your story is one of the most common here. It’s very similar to my own. Here you will find people who have suffered the same fall from grace that you have, yet are happily married to a spouse who remains all in with the Church. There are many who have raised children in the Church, even sending them out on missions.
One thing that has helped me tremendously is to think of the Church as an environment, rather than a godly institution. In this environment, there are faithful people trying to live god-centered lives. They believe some things I don’t, I believe some things they don’t, but I identify with them, I associate with them, I celebrate with them, and I mourn with them. Within this environment, I am at liberty to pursue my own brand of spirituality. It is sometimes very similar to theirs, it is sometimes very different. Either way, I own it as mine. I try to recognize the power of spirituality without the need to get wrapped around the axle about specific and minute points of doctrine. For example, I don’t care one iota about the Three Nephites, but I do find myself being spiritually uplifted by the concepts of putting away the natural man and walking in a new life, intentionally striving to be better. The Church is not a perfect environment, but it is the best one I know, and it works fine for me.
My own faith transition began many, many years ago, yet I have a believing spouse, I have children who have served missions and been married in the temple. I have Utah-mormon in-laws, yet I get along with them just fine.
I do want to address the spouse comment, briefly, because it is a situation that so many experience and this site is a great resource for discussion about what has worked and what hasn’t for so many.
For every couple where one spouse loses faith in the Church and the other spouse still believes, there are two heartbroken people. It is pretty common for each one to think that their own trials are extreme and that the other person doesn’t understand. Neither is more ‘enlightened’ than the other, though they both think they are. They typically both feel hurt, afraid, unsure, and even misunderstood by the other. Yet, there is one person in every such situation who is the one who changed. In my own case, I am the one who changed, not her. I feel that I have the greater obligation to be supportive, patient, forgiving, and caring. It’s not up to me to convince her about the Church, but to convince her that I love her more than anything else. It’s not for me to make her understand me, but for me to understand her. When we walked out of the temple all those years ago, we set out on a path together. We fully expected our lives to conform to the ideal that we both had. Now we find ourselves in a much different situation than we thought we would. My wife is still on the path, and I am not. I owe it to her to support her and accept her for remaining on the same path that we both agreed upon. I love her for who she is and part of who she is is the Church.
My advice is to go out of your way… to ridiculous levels… to show her that you love her more now than when you were married, and that while you are no longer a believer (or however who decide to describe yourself) that you support her wholeheartedly in the Church… that you don’t want to do anything to create dividing lines. My advice is never to talk doctrine. We all have a natural desire to explain why our logic is sound; to show that it isn’t US, but the CHURCH that has caused our faith crisis. We often find ourselves in situations where we are willing to verbally or emotionally confront the people that we love most in order to ‘win’ an argument. This is all part of that ‘natural man’ that we must let go of, if we want to live god-centered lives, IMO. My wife knows I am no longer a believer. If she ever wants to explore for herself and get my take on it, she knows where to find me. Until then, I accept her and the faith that she has. One mental aid is to imagine that your wife is Catholic. Would you tell her how weird transubstantiation is or trot out the Bad Popes or the selling of indulgences? Of course not, because it would serve no purpose other than to undermine what she believes in.
Finally, as has already been said by DJ on this thread, there is one very common piece of advice on this forum that I love and I think it is apropos for your relationship with others as well as the voice inside your own head: focus on what you do believe, rather than on what you don’t.
You are both mourning the loss of your expectations. You for your confidence in the church and the church formula – her for her expectations for your eternal marriage. It will take some time to work through these emotions and develop new expectations. I remember my own wife thinking that I was going to take up drinking. “Well,” she explained, “everything else has changed. How am I supposed to know what will go next?” To your wife it might feel like you just jettisoned a part of your marriage.
This is why it can be critical in the short term to assure her of who you still are, what you still care about, and where your priorities and commitments lie. For my part, I still believe in the eternal nature of my marriage – if for no other reason than that I’ll refuse to accept anything else.
It will get better (both as you adjust to the new normal and as you graduate and move away from such an LDS church saturated environment). I hope we can help along the way.
Welcome!
:wave: On Own Now wrote:ktmxr,
Welcome to the forum. I’m sorry that you are going through this. Your story is one of the most common here. It’s very similar to my own. Here you will find people who have suffered the same fall from grace that you have, yet are happily married to a spouse who remains all in with the Church. There are many who have raised children in the Church, even sending them out on missions.
One thing that has helped me tremendously is to think of the Church as an environment, rather than a godly institution. In this environment, there are faithful people trying to live god-centered lives. They believe some things I don’t, I believe some things they don’t, but I identify with them, I associate with them, I celebrate with them, and I mourn with them. Within this environment, I am at liberty to pursue my own brand of spirituality. It is sometimes very similar to theirs, it is sometimes very different. Either way, I own it as mine. I try to recognize the power of spirituality without the need to get wrapped around the axle about specific and minute points of doctrine. For example, I don’t care one iota about the Three Nephites, but I do find myself being spiritually uplifted by the concepts of putting away the natural man and walking in a new life, intentionally striving to be better. The Church is not a perfect environment, but it is the best one I know, and it works fine for me.
My own faith transition began many, many years ago, yet I have a believing spouse, I have children who have served missions and been married in the temple. I have Utah-mormon in-laws, yet I get along with them just fine.
I do want to address the spouse comment, briefly, because it is a situation that so many experience and this site is a great resource for discussion about what has worked and what hasn’t for so many.
For every couple where one spouse loses faith in the Church and the other spouse still believes, there are two heartbroken people. It is pretty common for each one to think that their own trials are extreme and that the other person doesn’t understand. Neither is more ‘enlightened’ than the other, though they both think they are. They typically both feel hurt, afraid, unsure, and even misunderstood by the other. Yet, there is one person in every such situation who is the one who changed. In my own case, I am the one who changed, not her. I feel that I have the greater obligation to be supportive, patient, forgiving, and caring. It’s not up to me to convince her about the Church, but to convince her that I love her more than anything else. It’s not for me to make her understand me, but for me to understand her. When we walked out of the temple all those years ago, we set out on a path together. We fully expected our lives to conform to the ideal that we both had. Now we find ourselves in a much different situation than we thought we would. My wife is still on the path, and I am not. I owe it to her to support her and accept her for remaining on the same path that we both agreed upon. I love her for who she is and part of who she is is the Church.
My advice is to go out of your way… to ridiculous levels… to show her that you love her more now than when you were married, and that while you are no longer a believer (or however who decide to describe yourself) that you support her wholeheartedly in the Church… that you don’t want to do anything to create dividing lines. My advice is never to talk doctrine. We all have a natural desire to explain why our logic is sound; to show that it isn’t US, but the CHURCH that has caused our faith crisis. We often find ourselves in situations where we are willing to verbally or emotionally confront the people that we love most in order to ‘win’ an argument. This is all part of that ‘natural man’ that we must let go of, if we want to live god-centered lives, IMO. My wife knows I am no longer a believer. If she ever wants to explore for herself and get my take on it, she knows where to find me. Until then, I accept her and the faith that she has. One mental aid is to imagine that your wife is Catholic. Would you tell her how weird transubstantiation is or trot out the Bad Popes or the selling of indulgences? Of course not, because it would serve no purpose other than to undermine what she believes in.
Finally, as has already been said by DJ on this thread, there is one very common piece of advice on this forum that I love and I think it is apropos for your relationship with others as well as the voice inside your own head: focus on what you do believe, rather than on what you don’t.
Welcome to the Ward. I love what On Own Now wrote here. Beautiful advice.
I wrote this in a previous post, but I think a faith crisis can be a huge blessing. Instead of just going through the same old spiritual motions, maybe God wants to connect with you in a deeper way without the filter of Mormon culture. Maybe you’ve attached your spirituality and identity too much to the church, its rules and its culture, that this faith crisis is the Lord’s way of helping you awaken and truly analyze your relationship with Him.
What I have found is that once you’re at peace with your relationship with God and yourself, it really doesn’t matter where you choose to practice your spirituality or fellowship. You are at peace and happy wherever you are. Through this awakening process, you will also discover that your spiritual journey is intensely personal. Your spiritual identity (foundation) cannot be built on the church, it’s history, or its members. It can only be built on the Savior, and how that relationship works is only between you and Him, and no one else.
I’m still very active in the church, so this may seem funny to say, but I’m excited for you. Not for the hurt or anguish that you and your wife are going through, but for the awakening that is on the other side of your faith crisis.
Like others have mentioned. Focus on your relationship with your wife, love her unconditionally, and open your heart to the unknown.
Let us know how we can help.
Hi ktmxr, I have myself in similar position where my whole mission I defended the ban on the priesthood to African Americans as God’s doctrine, and recently found out it was really just Brigham Young’s biasness. I know that God always the human influence into the decision that have been made by GAs, but it has been a shock of how much that has been. I just want to make a few suggestions though. Though church history is not black and white as you and I were lead to believe or even close, you think you can still have somewhat of a good intellectual testimony of the church as well as a spiritual testimony of the church. It would really be worth your time to read objective author’s books who have done their homework on the issues that bother you to get full context. I do not think that Fair or farms would hurt either but of course these mostly focus on what supports their case, though they make some strong arguments.
Objective author’s are even better. This is especially true for the polygamy issues because this is the one that most, including those who leave the church over doctrinal issues, bring up the most. As far race issues, though it does not justify it, I would look at other Christian churches and even Abraham Lincoln’s attitude of race and mix black and white relationship to get a full idea of the general mentally of the 1850’s and 60’s. I know that in the restored gospel as taught every Sunday, you would expect some Heavenly intervention to prevent the course of racial exclusion in the church, but for whatever reason it didn’t happen.
Lastly, look for the truthfulness of the gospel not in the history or the current or past policies, even there are policy that would just urk me to no end if I dwelt on them and the lack of response to changing them at the top, but look for the truthfulness in the ordinances that were restored because that is really why the authority is so important. Restored ordinances are evident of course in the sacrament, temple ordinances, prayer, scriptures, helping others find joy and satisfaction in their life, etc. Even when I have been the angriest with the demands of church or some of the inflexibilities of Church policy, I have never been able to deny the spirit I feel in participating in the ordinances. I hope my two cents are of some worth. I loved BYU-Idaho. The spirit is so strong up their.
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