- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
eman wrote:
Hey Chris! Welcome!
What you’re going through is pretty normal. Myself I’m at a volatile state. At one point I just decided to throw away all my belief completely. I even stopped believing in God for a couple minutes, just long enough to let the consequences of such belief wash over me. Then I decided that I did believe in God. This was over a year and half ago. From there I’ve been analyzing all my beliefs and deciding what I do and don’t believe. The thing I’ve been struggling most with of late is the idea that faith is a choice. Sometimes there is no way to know something. The BoM is a great example. There are evidences that point both ways. Thus for one to believe it’s all made up is actually a choice. You look at the evidence and choose to believe that way. The “truth” is that there is no evidence strong enough in either direction and so we must have faith. We get to choose what to have faith in. For me, this is a moving target. I don’t accept it as fraud. I want to believe it to be true completely but I can’t because my mind won’t let me and God won’t tell me. So I sit in the middle on this issue believing as some, that it has truth in it and seems too complex to have been simply made up. So I believe it’s inspired in some way and that’s good enough for me for now. Maybe I’ll feel differently in an hour.
I highly suggest reading some or all the articlse
hereAgain welcome! I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts in subsequent threads!
+1
What I was trying to say, but eman put it better
Quote:By the way, go ahead and vent as loud and as angry as you want on here.
Just understand that I might chime in and ask you to reword things if it gets a bit much.
Old-Timer wrote:Quote:By the way, go ahead and vent as loud and as angry as you want on here.
Just understand that I might chime in and ask you to reword things if it gets a bit much.
Ah… Yes… Thanks for the reminder
My politics are mostly to the left too. The BoM? Great book, not a scrap of physical evidence for it, but a great and mysterious inspiration.
Forget the BoA and racist stuff, waste of time mostly.
Your wife sounds great – you’re very lucky.
SamBee wrote:
Great book, not a scrap of physical evidence for it, but a great and mysterious inspiration.That might be taking it a little far. I think there are volumes full of evidences for, and about as many against. As eman said, it’s inconclusive either way. I guess in the end you’re right that it’s the books ability to inspire that counts.
Many stories in the NT are fiction. Openly so. Jesus used them to teach. The prodigal son, very moving. Not being Jewish we sometimes miss the fact he ate pig swill. Not just disgusting, but ritually unclean. Jesus was a Jew… the ending is beautiful. It should be taught more often.
My biggest prob with the BOM is all the stuff out of Matthew. Why?
Mackay, the best evidence I’ve seen is from Arabia. I think people traveled to America long before Columbus. Not regularly, but often enough. Maybe some went the other way. Or one way. If we actually knew where it was set that would help. We don’t.
Contrary to popular opinion, central America is not dead certain.JS’ backyard is as likely SamBee wrote:Mackay, the best evidence I’ve seen is from Arabia. I think people traveled to America long before Columbus. Not regularly, but often enough. Maybe some went the other way. Or one way.
If we actually knew where it was set that would help. We don’t.
Contrary to popular opinion, central America is not dead certain.JS’ backyard is as likely I agree that Arabia has the best evidence. We have a definite starting point, mapable references and clear directions to follow. When we follow those directions, we find convincing evidence of plausability. A popular travel route in a south easterly direction. A valley 3 days journey from Jerusalem. (The practice of building a mobile altar was only an option when 3 or more days from the Jerusalem temple). Ishmael buried in “the place that was called Nahum.” A city of similar name has been discovered as a place that was around in 600, approx where the BoM says it should be (every other place in 1 Nep is named by themselves, like “valley of Lemuel”). Follow them East where Joseph was laughed at for suggesting the reach a land Bountiful. But in reality there is a pocket of greenery:
http://goo.gl/maps/ncUqN On the other hand, the ‘New World’ has nothing so substantial. It’s almost like The Lion, Witch and the Wardrobe. We start in a ‘mappable’ location in London and then follow the children into the countryside where they drop off a map as they pass through the wardrobe into Narnia. Maybe the Nephites are Narnians
I wonder whether we’d find equally strong evidence for the New World as the Old if we actually new where to start looking. That’s the problem. People can’t even agree on which continent to start from, let alone a city.
I’d be quite interested in discussing the fors and against of the Book of Mormon in another thread (I don’t want to hi-jack this one). Would anyone care to join me in the ‘History and Doctrine hall’ to list the best and worst fors and againsts…? Or is that too close to the bone?
Welcome to the newbies. I think I am the 6th youngest here in my faith crisis. I have only been here since October and I feel like I am home. I am the least eloquent here so I have no new advice to give that has not already been said better. Be patient, scream when you need to…but do it here or in a closet….don’t do it at church. Last thing you want is to knock over somebody else who is in a happy place. If DW is open chat to her…you are lucky there.
Take care….and learn to enjoy the journey..
johnh
mackay11 wrote:Old-Timer wrote:Quote:By the way, go ahead and vent as loud and as angry as you want on here.
Just understand that I might chime in and ask you to reword things if it gets a bit much.
Ah… Yes… Thanks for the reminder
I’ll try my best at the eloquent ranting!
SamBee wrote:My politics are mostly to the left too.
The BoM? Great book, not a scrap of physical evidence for it, but a great and mysterious inspiration.
Forget the BoA and racist stuff, waste of time mostly.
Your wife sounds great – you’re very lucky.
On the politics issue, my wife Skyped (is that a verb!?) one of her old mission companions at the weekend. This ex-companion is an amazing woman. She’s a public school teacher in DC so is very much a Dem. On a recent trip to SLC someone had genuinely asked her “how on earth can you vote democrat and be LDS?” It made me so mad that people think like that!
kristmace wrote:
On the politics issue, my wife Skyped (is that a verb!?) one of her old mission companions at the weekend. This ex-companion is an amazing woman. She’s a public school teacher in DC so is very much a Dem. On a recent trip to SLC someone had genuinely asked her “how on earth can you vote democrat and be LDS?” It made me so mad that people think like that!
All part of stage 3 faith. If something doesn’t support your position you throw it out. Thus a Mormon “Republican” unconsciously dismisses liberal arguments on issues as invalid. So they really have a hard time understanding why someone with the “same” religious beliefs wouldn’t vote the same. I was very much this way before my crisis.kristmace, my oldest daughter (the one who leaves for the MTC next week) is a socialist / libertarian who votes Democrat because she wants her vote to count – or, when she lived in Provo, just to make a point. When she told a group of YSA friends in Provo that she voted for President Obama, one of them said to her, “Are you serious – or are you just saying that to stir things up?” She’s not known as being shy. She literally laughed and assured them that she had never considered voting for Governor Romney – and, knowing her, she might not have if God had appeared to her and asked her to do it. (I’m not sure He would have had the audacity to tell her to do it, since I think He knows her better than that.)
Old-Timer wrote:Quote:By the way, go ahead and vent as loud and as angry as you want on here.
Just understand that I might chime in and ask you to reword things if it gets a bit much.
And if Ray is out and it gets really, REALLY bad I may actually make a comment about it.
Hi kristmace, and welcome. It’s great to have someone with your experiences add to this forum. I hope it’s as helpful for you as it has been for me. I’m not in the UK, but I relate with your long heritage of mormonism. There are a lot of really good things about the church that I’m not willing to give up but there are some things that I can’t accept at face value either. Some of those are the things you listed. Straddling the skeptical side and the true believing side is difficult and I’ve found solace here as well as practical and very helpful suggestions on how to express myself and interact with others. Seeing others’ points of view has helped me understand that it’s ok to have a crisis of faith.
My kids are in the primary and youth programs and I worry a lot about how to be “honest” with them without imposing my own beliefs and standards on them. It sounds like you struggle with something similar. I think one high councilor has caught on to my middle way approach because after sharing my testimony with very few statements of “I Know” he got up and shared a testimony with about 20 “I Know” and said we have to say that explicitly.
Anyways, I look forward to your posts and sharing your experiences.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.