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Heber13 wrote:
Why do we sing hymns at all at church?
I’ve long thought that the only activity that the entire congregation participates in together is singing. Even while praying together we passively listen to someone else. That being said I’m a musician and I like to sing but I understand why others do not. It’s sort of presumptuous to think that everybody can or should sing – I mean how many members were trained to read music?
I am one of the people who is moved by music. I think there is a percentage of church members whose main connection to the church and/or divine is music and without it they would leave any church. The rest of the congregants probably don’t care much either way.
SamBee wrote:
Meh… Scotland doesn’t have an official anthem as such, but if there is one then “Flower of Scotland” is the actual anthem used at sports events etc which has a different tune, and seems to be preferred by them themselves. “Scotland the Brave” isn’t used much anymore and is seen as a bit corny by Scots. But it doesn’t mention fighting the English which probably makes it acceptable to the British government which rules Scotland.😆
My mother – who is a talented organist – once toured several churches in Scotland to see and possibly play the organs if permitted. Often the local priest would allow her to view the organ close up or even play it. She sat down at one organ and began to play Praise to the Man. She knew it had a Scottish flavor but didn’t realize it was of special significance until everybody in the church stood up immediately and stopped talking. It was pretty funny and fortunate that should could play the entire piece by memory.
Your suggestion that we sing Waltzing Matilda brings to mind our hymn Lord Dismiss Miss Us With Thy Blessing. It’s the same hymn as Go Tell Aunt Rhody a well known American folk tune. Every time I hear it I think of Poor Rhody and her dead goose.
I am biased, since I love music. Singing rousing hymns as a group is awesome – except when they are played at funeral dirge speed. :wtf: When I play a rousing hymn in any meeting, I play it at the upper end of the tempo range listed for it – and sometimes beyond the range.
Old Timer wrote:
I am biased, since I love music. Singing rousing hymns as a group is awesome – except when they are played at funeral dirge speed.:wtf:
A couple of the pre-sacrament hymns can be dirgy.
But why sing? Other than spiritual stuff, it’s actually enjoyable and is part of our community aspect. Even non-Mormons, ex-Mormons and anti-Mormons, none of whom have an investment in the church, admit they enjoy many of our hymns. MoTab is a classic example of this – lots of people outside the church love their music… on their Youtube videos you can read comments like “I’m not a Mormon/LDS but…”
I’ve heard a number of people who can’t stand the church otherwise say some of the hymns move them.
Old Timer wrote:
I am biased, since I love music. Singing rousing hymns as a group is awesome – except when they are played at funeral dirge speed.:wtf: When I play a rousing hymn in any meeting, I play it at the upper end of the tempo range listed for it – and sometimes beyond the range.
I visited a different ward on Mother’s Day and they played the hymns so fast that both DW and I were struggling to catch out breath and keep up. It was a humorous departure from the problem of playing hymns too slow.
:thumbup: This is the Community of Christ (RLDS) version of Spirit of God, see what you think: Here is Cwm Rhondda (Guide me oh thou Great Jehovah) as sung by the Welsh:
My main gripe with the hymnal is that some of the tunes have been oversimplified and in the case of the last one, the words have been altered.
So after some research I have concluded that IMO the hymns are divided in thirds between keepers, meh, and dumpers. This is thirds in the “third of the hosts of heaven” kind of way – not necessarily equal thirds but somewhat close. The lists are therefore too long to put here where most of you wouldn’t care anyway. Suffice it to say that I mostly agree with what others have said: -Dump the Utah-centric/mountain/Zion is Utah ones (In Our Lovely Deseret and Carry On never made much sense to me in NY)
-Dump many of the restoration ones that talk about angels, etc. (examples “What was Witnessed…,” “An Angel From On High”)
-Dump some of the prophet praise/pray songs because there are too many and because….
-Dump the national anthems
-Dump the men only and women only ones (make “Brightly Beams…” SATB)
-Dump the more militaristic ones (with the exceptions of “Battle Hymn of the Republic” and “Onward Christian Soldiers,” see next bullet)
-Keep all of the ones other Christians have (for example “All Creatures…,” “A Mighty Fortress…,” “How Great Thou Art”)
-Keep most of the sacrament hymns (I like In Humility Our Savior, but it could use a revision of “then when we have proven worthy” because of grace)
-Keep the praise hymns (around hymn numbers 70-80)
-Keep the Christmas songs
-Keep the Easter songs and add more – we never do justice to Easter, the greatest of Christian holidays
-Keep the Thanksgiving songs
-Keep the Savior songs (about 96-117) although Come Follow Me needs to be fixed so the transition from verse 4 to 5 doesn’t end mid-sentence (either move 4 to the bottom or move 5 up)
Specific ones to dump:
-Praise to the Man (I know, wishful thinking) but Joseph Smith’s First Prayer is OK except it’s hard to sing and I’d rather it was called “Oh How Lovely Was the Morning.”
-They the Builders of the Nation
-Ring Out Wild Bells (hard to sing and other reasons)
-Love at Home (hard to sing and other reasons)
Specific ones to keep (mostly because I like them):
-A Poor Wayfaring Man
-Press Forward Saints
-Master the Tempest is Raging
-Be Still My Soul
-I Know That My Redeemer Lives
-Lord, I Would Follow Thee
-Let Us All Press On
-The Lord Is My Light
Add:
-Come Thou Fount” (despite the “nobody sang it” mantra, our ward did sing it)
-Amazing Grace
-Holy, Holy, Holy
-It is Well With My Soul
-Here I Am, Lord”
So I finally went and did my survey. Obviously I know some of what I suggested won’t fly (ie they aren’t going to remove Praise to the Man no matter how many of us suggest it). But I found something a little curious about the wording of some of the questions: Quote:What currently included hymns or songs,
if any, might be candidates to drop from a new hymnbook or songbook? (emphasis added)
The more positive questions (favorite hymns and hymns to be added) lack the “if any” annotation. But both negative questions (the one quoted above and problems with the current hymnbook) include it. I realize Qualtrics powers the survey and Qualtrics is well respected and high quality (and Mormon owned). I don’t know if they influence the wording of the questions, and I’m not a psychologist – but I think the “if any” thing adds a connotation. Almost like it’s not really expected that there might be hymns people would like removed or problems with the hymnbook. FWIW, I really like the stuff in the back of the book but I also recognize there are people who are totally lost by that stuff and can’t find a hymn using those indexes.
I didn’t really say anything about the Children’s book except I included my favorite on the list of favorites. Being that my children are adults and I don’t see myself accepting a call to Primary in the future I gave it a miss. But I hadn’t really thought about grandchildren (I don’t have any yet). Much of what we talk about here are hymnbook songs but I have heard disliked children’s songs mentioned in other threads. Although the tune is catchy I personally don’t like “Follow the Prophet” but I’m sure that one would fall on deaf ears. What children’s songs might be on your lists for removal?
On Own Now wrote:
The church is seeking input, including original songs. I have submitted the following, though it is to a common tune (as they used to do).(sung to “If You Could Hie to Kolob”):
If you could high five Dieter, with a twinkling in his eye,
He’d then continue talking ’bout when he used to fly,
Do you think that you could ever, through all eternity
Find out the reason he is not in the First Presidency?
:clap: Yea! Love, love, love it!I submitted one suggestion, which I doubt will be taken, but whatever… I absolutely love “Beautiful Savior” and the harmony in it just takes my breath away. I’d actually like it if they changed the key for a lot of them so I could actually sing them.
Katzpur wrote:
I submitted one suggestion, which I doubt will be taken, but whatever… I absolutely love “Beautiful Savior” and the harmony in it just takes my breath away.I’d actually like it if they changed the key for a lot of them so I could actually sing them.
I like that song, too, and didn’t think of it during my submission. I think you can submit more than once, though. And good point about the key – I might like Love at Home better in a different key.
DarkJedi wrote:I like that song, too, and didn’t think of it during my submission. I think you can submit more than once, though. And good point about the key – I might like Love at Home better in a different key.
They’d probably have to change the words to that one before I’d like it.
Katzpur wrote:
DarkJedi wrote:I like that song, too, and didn’t think of it during my submission. I think you can submit more than once, though. And good point about the key – I might like Love at Home better in a different key.
They’d probably have to change the words to that one before I’d like it.
Who wants roses blooming beneath their feet anyway? Roses have thorns!
😆 dande48 wrote:
I vote for the removal of:-Hymns focused on or praising Joseph Smith
-War Hymns
-Hymns with deep, unsubstantiated doctrine
So in other words, the Cokesbury Methodist Hymnal?
(I still wish the UMC would go back to that one.)
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