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Awesome new site they begins to address faith crisis in a very real way. Includes John Dehlin and Terryl Given’s voices. Check it out.
video 1 Alone
Feeling alone, Justin shares with his father and wife his concerns about his church and comes to a new understanding of his faith and those he loves. …
video 2 Book of Abraham Challenge 3. Joseph Smith Got Nothing Right?
But I have heard that in 1912 Egyptologists examined the same facsimiles and Joseph Smith’s translations, and they say he go nothing right in the…
My wife and i watched last night… i thought while cheesy acting the message was awesome
Wow, that first video “Alone” brought back some very real emotions from back when I went through that. The situation is so typical for whatever reason – feeling that you can’t share, the wife being upset for not being told. They nailed a lot of things. I applaud the realistic approach, the way they say you have to let go of a lot of assumptions. It’s kind of freaky the way they almost modeled the wife’s reaction after my own experience, her feeling hurt for being left out. Except shortly after my wife said “I want to know everything” and got an idea of a few issues, she changed her mind and realized she really didn’t want to get into it. I don’t blame her one bit, I don’t think all personalities are built for this particular journey. While I watched I felt the weight of the issue that the church faces. In order to fight the problem head-on to prevent more members from feeling betrayed, they must risk exposing other members to problems that will become toxic for them. This process will result in some leaving for good, while allowing others to grow into a more informed and mature faith. It is not a “win-win” proposition, while doing nothing is damaging as well.
Orson wrote:Wow, that first video “Alone” brought back some very real emotions from back when I went through that. The situation is so typical for whatever reason – feeling that you can’t share, the wife being upset for not being told. They nailed a lot of things. I applaud the realistic approach, the way they say you have to let go of a lot of assumptions. It’s kind of freaky the way they almost modeled the wife’s reaction after my own experience, her feeling hurt for being left out. Except shortly after my wife said “I want to know everything” and got an idea of a few issues, she changed her mind and realized she really didn’t want to get into it. I don’t blame her one bit, I don’t think all personalities are built for this particular journey.
While I watched I felt the weight of the issue that the church faces. In order to fight the problem head-on to prevent more members from feeling betrayed, they must risk exposing other members to problems that will become toxic for them. This process will result in some leaving for good, while allowing others to grow into a more informed and mature faith. It is not a “win-win” proposition, while doing nothing is damaging as well.
You summed up my thoughts and feelings so well. If only parents and spouses all reacted like this. My wife feels threatened and hurt. We talk some but she doesn’t want to know and I don’t want to tell her either. I wonder where all this will lead us. I have shared my feelings with one friend and he has been great. He said he understands and today he asked me if I could take the doctrines of Christ and leave out all the personalities of the people from JS to my home teachers and if I could feel good about that. I have been thinking about that all day. Maybe Christ’s opinion is the only one that really matters and I don’t have to agree much with anyone else. It’s something to think about, isn’t it?
DB, do you know who is the backing behind this? Is this officially church sponsored or private? I’m sure it is private, just as FAIR and the others are not officially connected with the church there are a lot of good reasons for this not to be official – at least for now. My hunch is there are probably leaders watching the reaction of this type of thing very closely – to feel out the best direction to take. I watched to BofA challenges. Not being an Egyptologist I can not make statements of accuracy of what he was talking about, but I can say he was making little to no sense to me, and avoided the real questions. Not very helpful at all. church0333 wrote:DB, do you know who is the backing behind this? Is this officially church sponsored or private?
My guess is not the church. It was shown at the independant utah film festival. That said I agree with the followup comment. I see this approach as very viable. I can see them utilizing this in many ways.
church0333 wrote:DB, do you know who is the backing behind this? Is this officially church sponsored or private?
I’m guessing the site was put up by the producer of the videos, Prof. Dennis Packard of BYU’s Dept. of Philosophy.SamIam wrote:church0333 wrote:DB, do you know who is the backing behind this? Is this officially church sponsored or private?
I’m guessing the site was put up by the producer of the videos, Prof. Dennis Packard of BYU’s Dept. of Philosophy.Producer of the site is a professor within the BYU system.
The owner of the domain is listed as an e-mail address at byu.edu
Funding for the video probably came from the video department at BYU, and scripted by professors within BYU, or possibly within Fair, which again is paid out of BYU.
BYU is owned by whom?
I would consider this to be officially church sponsored, supported, backed, researched, produced, and endorsed.
sundancegt wrote:SamIam wrote:church0333 wrote:DB, do you know who is the backing behind this? Is this officially church sponsored or private?
I’m guessing the site was put up by the producer of the videos, Prof. Dennis Packard of BYU’s Dept. of Philosophy.Producer of the site is a professor within the BYU system.
The owner of the domain is listed as an e-mail address at byu.edu
Funding for the video probably came from the video department at BYU, and scripted by professors within BYU, or possibly within Fair, which again is paid out of BYU.
BYU is owned by whom?
I would consider this to be officially church sponsored, supported, backed, researched, produced, and endorsed.
I would kindly disagree. While possible, I in no way see the the reasons you give as overwhelmingly leading to decide the church is behind it. I would caution that leap. I do not think the university is micromanaged the way this assumption would assume. Now a caveat…. I hope it is the Church behind it and there is a whole lot more of this ahead.
sundancegt wrote:Producer of the site is a professor within the BYU system.
The owner of the domain is listed as an e-mail address at byu.edu
Funding for the video probably came from the video department at BYU, and scripted by professors within BYU, or possibly within Fair, which again is paid out of BYU.
BYU is owned by whom?
I would consider this to be officially church sponsored, supported, backed, researched, produced, and endorsed.
No, Packard teaches film theory and produces his own films. I don’t know anything about the website, but the films are Packard’s own initiative. Even if he was able to get some support from various campus units, this is in no way a BYU production. If it was, it would says so. BYU doesn’t do stealth.I watched a couple of the BOA videos and they didn’t really help. It seemed to me that he was focusing on the 2/3 things right in there whilst ignoring the white elephant in the room. Also, the guy speaking has been outed on FB as having not worked at UCLA for a while. Seems that he wanted to keep his employment at BYU quiet as it gives him less credibility!
😆 BofA is just a tough one. I haven’t seen anything other than apologetics that isn’t pretty implausible. Maybe they are just working with what they’ve got. I looked up the guy speaking in the BoA videos. He is a professor of religion at BYU. BS and MS from BYU and sounds like a lot of his PhD work was done in conjunction with BYU, but graduated from UCLA so that he could work at BYU (most universities won’t hire their own graduates). Only full time position has been with BYU. He’s not impartial. Confirmation bias at its worst. The smoking gun on the BoA for me is that Joseph identifies each person in facsimile 3 with phrases like “whose name is given in the characters above his head,” or “as written above the hand.” or “as represented by the characters above his hand.” We now know that is NOT what is said “above the hand.”
I want the church to be true as much as anybody, but as an academic myself I find it shameful that this person is deliberately trying to mislead people. This is unethical, is called academic dishonesty, and is grounds for a professor to be denied tenure, if not for complete dismissal from most universities. Everybody suffers if we forge results and mislead people. Can you imagine if all science was done this way? Start from a conclusion and go backwards, you dig and dig until you find a few scraps of obscure and weakly associated evidence that support your hypothesis, while ignoring the obvious and compelling evidence that is right there on the page!
I would love to hear his Egyptologist colleagues’ peer reviews of these videos. I don’t think he would be taken seriously again in his career. He better hope he doesn’t lose his temple recommend and thus his job, because I don’t think he could find a job teaching anywhere but BYU with shoddy and biased research such as this!
Tim wrote:Can you imagine if all science was done this way? Start from a conclusion and go backwards, you dig and dig until you find a few scraps of obscure and weakly associated evidence that support your hypothesis, while ignoring the obvious and compelling evidence that is right there on the page!
Bad science but good apologetics. I think all he’s trying to do is show that, at a few important points, the evidence is partial and complicated, and therefore leaves “room for belief” that Joseph was a prophet. That’s how apologists put it, though I think the goal is even more modest than that: To create room for doubting that Joseph was absolutely a fraud. And it doesn’t take much to establish that seed of doubt. If you can establish that one cannot know 100% absolutely positively without doubt that Joseph was atotal fraud, mission accomplished.
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