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Hi Roadrunner, Welcome to the community. I enjoyed your intro. I’m glad you can manage staying and even being in a higher-profile leadership position. I loved your sample of answers above. They are straight forward. We need a greater comfort level for answers like that in church culture. The only way I can think that will happen is by example. Thanks for being an example.
Roadrunner wrote:• Two days ago in Sunday School the idea of evolution came up and how it’s contrary to doctrine and just plain wrong. I raised my hand and said that there is no official church position about evolution and that I know many people in good standing who support it altogether. I also said there are a lot of things assumed to be doctrine and which aren’t at all and that it’s our job to figure that out.
This is an excellent example of how valuable you can be in your ward, because more people in church need to know these things, and this was done in such a great way to stating there is no official church position on it.
:thumbup: I think you have the responsibility to teach your kids, and they will be better off when you teach them correctly. The Church is supposed to be there to support you to do that, but sometimes, people in the church make it harder. But it just reinforces the need for parents to be actively involved, and not just leave it up to well-intentioned YW/YM leaders or primary leaders.
I have found sometimes the hard part is not going into more detail then my kids need. Kids need to be taught at their level of understanding, not what I think as a 40 year old adult is interesting or problematic for me.
I hope my kids have learned from me, and know to come ask me questions when things don’t make sense, and that there are positive ways to work through answers, it is not all critical towards the church just because the church sticks to mile and sometimes perpetuates folklore instead of doctrine.
I loved your answers, RoadRunner. All of them. And regarding your TR question response:
wayfarer wrote:I feel that I can honestly answer them in that context.
Me 2.
I really like your specifc examples, roadrunner. They are very similar to how I would have answered the question. (and, Ann, I apologize for not answering those questions yet) DBMormon wrote:One suggestion for trying to figure out how remain believing is to see how others put the puzzle together.
There is no one better then Teryl Givens in my opinion in separating what is true from all the peripheral things that happen and are said
this podcast is awesome
http://mormonstories.org/terryl-givens-an-approach-to-thoughtful-honest-and-faithful-mormonism/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://mormonstories.org/terryl-givens-an-approach-to-thoughtful-honest-and-faithful-mormonism/ I love part two and three the best. with three being just super!!!
At the end of the day the Holy Ghost rely has to be where truth is found, but Givens gives some ideas I have never thought of that fit well into how I needed to better view the church.
Thank you – I’ll see what Teryl has to say.
Wayfarer, Thank you for pointing me to that series of posts. After seeing it I skimmed it and will spend a little more time on it later. There were some answers that I hadn’t considered. This is the type of stuff I find helpful.
doug wrote:Welcome from a fellow agnostic deist.
Nice – a kindred spirit.
🙂 I find myself compartmentalizing my life sometimes. I know just enough science to interest me and get myself into trouble but the business side of me is all about results and practical application of a principle.
So… as a wannabe scientist I have to acknowledge the strong possibility of the universe existing because we won the cosmic lottery. As a person who looks up at the stars and considers the beauty of life I think “what a waste for all this to be here for naught.” That part of me really, really hopes there is a loving Heavenly Father.
Again, this may be a duplicate. Roadrunner, thank you very much for these examples. (And, Ray, I will look forward to whatever you add when there is time.) Parental responsibility is a painful problem for me right now. You said you “try to tell the truth whenever I am asked,” but some very important questions are only asked once, and my children were given answers then that I wouldn’t give now. My more nuanced approach – a huge mental shift in my own mind – is not, by design, making much of an impact on my children. I don’t have a question. Thanks, everyone. Thanks for your thoughts, Ann. I appreciate them. One more thought, maybe the kids don’t need answers from us parents. They need to know how to search for answers, and be told it is ok to question what you hear in church, and what you hear from mom and dad.
Welcome roadrunner, I too have served in a couple of Bishopric and I’m now on the High Council and it it difficult at times to be true to your own feelings and also support all the things that are taught at church. I have many of the same feelings and misgivings that you mentioned. Last month in my HC talk I told about my conversion and about my parents who are/were alcoholics and that I thought that the WOW was something that was probably a good thing for me because I might (do) have a predisposition to alcoholism but that in my opinion drinking without abusing alcohol is not necessarily wrong. I told how the BOM has changed and helped my life but I could not in good conscience say it is true or the most correct book on earth. Even though I am on the “inside” as far as leadership I really feel on the outside most of the time. I know that I can’t change the church but I also get some comfort knowing I can bring a little more balance to my small piece of it. I also love BYU football (class of 85) and I too know it is not about church but some how I still expect them to have a higher standard the the rest of the nationally recognized teams. Go figure.
Fwiw, when I was released from both HC’s on which I served, I was thanked by the Stake President and/or other HC for my willingness to express views that otherwise wouldn’t have been expressed – often views others had never considered. I know that would not have been the case in some stakes, but it was the case in both stakes where I served in that calling.
Ray I agree with you. I have heard several times from members of the Stake Presidency how much they appreciate my views and that the ways I talk about mercy as opposed to justice is a good reminder for them. I will always strive for mercy when I can. I wasn’t always like that but now that I’ve been bruised a time or two I glad that I have changed. I’m asking myself if our culture/church is in a process, or not? Will MY children be middle-aged and have to hide major portions of their thoughts at church? My parents are midwesterners who joined the church in their twenties. I remember a couple of issues of Dialogue journals on our shelves around the time I was baptized, but they didn’t dwell on the thorny questions and served to the utmost in small wards and branches. They tended to “the one” and worked their own imperfections. But here were are more than forty years later afraid to be honest and half of my parents’ six children out of the church. Hi Roadrunner, Welcome!
I’m still trying to figure out how best to think of God.
To me, it seems that what works best is best.
I’m so used to thinking of God as Heavenly Father & Heavenly Mothers – so when I pray, I pray with them in mind.
Yet, I know that God is more than any limited idea like that.
God is more of an abstract creative principle with infinite modes of expression.
I’m not a scholar like many here. I’m just trying to figure out how to function. I’m conflicted about this site. On one hand, I’m so grateful not to feel alone. On the other, so sad that it’s necessary. Years ago cancer was whispered about. I don’t know exactly why and have a book on my shelf waiting to be read. (The Emperor of All Maladies. If anyone’s read it….) I feel like my spiritual doubts and questioning are unspeakable. There are many people at this site who are currently serving, searching and suffering. I wish we could just be more open. Okay, Ann, you have cancer. (I have doubts and concerns.)
It’s this kind of cancer. (There are certain aspects of the gospel as taught and church culture as experienced by most modern North Americans that are more troubling to me than others aspects of it.)
While there are risk factors for certain kinds of cancer, you do not have any of them. It’s bad luck, for lack of a better word.(I pretty much did what was expected of me and haven’t put myself at what LDS people would consider big spiritual risk. I have strived.)
There are many people with this cancer; you’re not alone. (How many people in the church have doubts and concerns?)
They can talk with you. You can read their stories. (I can here.
There are treatments. Here’s what we recommend and can do for you. The choice is yours. (If people could be more open, and not feel like they’re jumping off a cliff by going to a site like this, I imagine that this “disease” of doubt would be more treatable.)
We’re learning more all the time about this disease. Many live for a very long time, with good quality of life, even though they aren’t considered cured. (Would that people could, with love and mutual respect, and in reasonable times and places, say aloud the things they feel. We could live long, spiritual lives in the church and not hide.)
No guarantees. Try to love and live every minute you’re given. (Trying.)
Ann, love your example.
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