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Was I the only one offended by the Church commercial that show the visitors welcome sign on the Church building, and states toward the end: we can make you a better person, and you’ll help us become a better church? I know I dont have the quote right, but i thought to myself. I dont feel welcome at church, and I know a lot more people outside the church are better people than some inside the church. My wife is actually the one that brought the last sentence to my attention. It is true that Christ betters people, not the Church. I’m sorry this commercial is repulsive and wrong. Funny – our RS Pres mentioned it yesterday. She didn’t like it either. She didn’t give specifics. I think she just needed to let off a bit of steam. It’s bad when a devout person comments on it. Here’s the ad in question (it wasn’t easy to find): https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&v=EU4G2a2QAic ” class=”bbcode_url”> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&v=EU4G2a2QAic I saw the ad on BYUTV, I haven’t seen it otherwise. I think the last line is pretty close to what you said. I wouldn’t say I’m offended by it, but I did pause and think to myself “Really?” As a convert can I say I’m a better person than I was before I joined the church? Probably so. I’m probably also a better father, husband, and leader among other things. Could I also have become a better person by regularly attending and participating in another church? Probably so, I have seen it happen among family members. The real questions in my mind are how anyone makes the church better and are we portraying something that isn’t always true? Yes, I do understand that my participation has probably helped others and believe it or not there are some people at church who like to interact with me (even though the feeling is not always mutual). But can any run of the mill member, including bishops and SPs really make the church as a whole better? Top down seems to be the rule, so I don’t think so. Nevertheless, that’s not going to stop me from sitting by and talking to the outsider. However, I don’t think that’s true of every member and I’m absolutely sure that treating people like family is in some wards (at least) a very dysfunctional family. Even in my own ward, which I think is more open and accepting than average, I don’t think a tattooed gay couple who came in holding hands would be made to feel especially welcome despite the effort of the few of us.
BTW, this is my favorite church ad:
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media-library/video/2009-04-055-you-said?category=homefronts&lang=eng ” class=”bbcode_url”> https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media-library/video/2009-04-055-you-said?category=homefronts&lang=eng I don’t think a non-member or investigator would read as much into that as we do. They might think that simply being at church and associating with other members would be make things better, due to their personalities, or some other vague, not yet understood, non-threatening benefit. But for a long-time member — I know I’m a bit jaded at being treated like an employee, with indifference when I’ve had non-financial needs, while being subject to heavy “extractions” from my financial and personal life. Very one-sided so much of the time. So, I don’t really like the “make us a better church” part of the statement.
Has being a member made me a better person? In some ways, yes. It kept me out of the vices and their possible harm to others. But I think I was good to begin with — that’s why I wanted to be part of it. I’m not even sure if I want to be a “better person” than I am. I guess I want to be, but I know how hard it is to develop new traits or strengthen character. IN some ways, I’m worse off. It was in the church I developed a resentful, bitter kind of quality about my service there. Also, a kind of cynicism about the church, and experiences there have detracted from, rather improved my faith. I think I have less now that I did before I joined the church.
jamison wrote:
…I dont feel welcome at church…
I think one issue is that we conceptualize the 11th article of faith as pointing outward:
Quote:We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
It’s easier for us to make that concession for non-members but we might have a harder time with extending members of the church that same privilege.
nibbler wrote:
jamison wrote:
…I dont feel welcome at church…
I think one issue is that we conceptualize the 11th article of faith as pointing outward:
Quote:We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
It’s easier for us to make that concession for non-members but we might have a harder time with extending members of the church that same privilege.
It might be easier to extend the “let them worship….” idea to those outside the church, but I’m not sure we (as the institutional church) do very well at that either. If we really believed and practiced the idea wouldn’t we just drop the whole gay marriage (AKA religious freedom) thing? If that’s how they choose to worship shouldn’t we “offer them the same privilege?” And it’s hard to get through a Sunday in my ward without hearing how wrong that church or that religion is.
I just watched the ad and actually really liked it. It seems like the negative reaction stems from not feeling welcome yourself and it being hypocritical and the claims that coming to the LDS Church would make you a better person than not coming. Is that right? I am of the opinion that the missionary program is answering the questions no one is asking. We are out telling people that we are the true church, we have the legitimate authority and people generally don’t care because no one is really talking about that these days. The questions they are asking are “how can I belong to something bigger than myself?” “how can I find a community?” “would being part of a church make my life better?” You can say what you want about the Church, but we (when it works) do community as well or better than anyone else out there. I see this ad as a first attempt to answer those questions and sell the Church based on community and not on truth claims.
I just watched it after reading your comments felixfabulous. You raise some very good points. felixfabulous wrote:
It seems like the negative reaction stems from not feeling welcome yourself and it being hypocritical and the claims that coming to the LDS Church would make you a better person than not coming. Is that right?
I’m sure it factors in. There was a recent article at the-exponent (
So you Want me Back at Church?The article from the Exponent raises some good points about the ideal vs. the reality. The reality is that outspoken authentic people usually scare the hell out of everyone and make it uncomfortable. We usually squeeze them out and make them feel unwelcome. I would guess most of the people on this forum do what I do and participate when they can in a non-threatening way (offer a different perspective gently, or emphasize something in the scriptures that may contradict the conventional thought) and fly under the radar with our unorthodox views. If that doesn’t work, I tune out the lesson or leave when it’s something that will make me mad.
I think we should welcome everyone and be willing to tolerate different view points and all kinds of people (what I see as the ideal), which is why I like the message of the ad. But I recognize we are not there yet and it may be totally different than the pain people have experienced.
felixfabulous wrote:
I am of the opinion that the missionary program is answering the questions no one is asking. We are out telling people that we are the true church, we have the legitimate authority and people generally don’t care because no one is really talking about that these days. The questions they are asking are “how can I belong to something bigger than myself?” “how can I find a community?” “would being part of a church make my life better?” You can say what you want about the Church, but we (when it works) do community as well or better than anyone else out there. I see this ad as a first attempt to answer those questions and sell the Church based on community and not on truth claims.
Yeeessss! We seem to be saying, “We know that lots of other churches claim to have the holy secret sauce but we really do! No, really!” And millennials and others that place less value on institutional loyalty are taking a hard pass. Maybe this is a trial balloon to a different approach.
jamison wrote:
we can make you a better person, and you’ll help us become a better church? I know I dont have the quote right, [snip] It is true that Christ betters people, not the Church. I’m sorry this commercial is repulsive and wrong.
In watching the commercial (thank you DJ) it does say “He” can make you a better person. Meaning Jesus.
I do feel that the church can do a sense of community well – especially in some wards and areas.
I also noted that the people in the commercial seemed very diverse. I am sure there are some very diverse wards out there but that has not really been my experience and I was surprised by how many people of color were represented. Not that I am complaining – I just imagine that it was a deliberate choice.
Roy wrote:
In watching the commercial (thank you DJ) it does say “He” can make you a better person. Meaning Jesus.
Good catch, Roy. Frankly, I’m not sure Jesus himself has made me a better person, or even the faith and hope I have in him. From one point of view it is possible, and that is I do believe in Christ’s example of loving one another and that’s what He wanted from us (which is also of course what Heavenly Father wants from us). But I do appreciate that message, better than the “we can make you a better person.”
Quote:I also noted that the people in the commercial seemed very diverse. I am sure there are some very diverse wards out there but that has not really been my experience and I was surprised by how many people of color were represented. Not that I am complaining – I just imagine that it was a deliberate choice.
That’s my experience as well, but I do live in an area which lacks racial diversity. We have a Latino family in our ward, they’ve been here about a year for the father’s work. Otherwise we’re totally white. I also notice that the church tends to like to have people of color in their ads, despite the American church being overwhelmingly white. The “I’m a Mormon” ads were like that and event the commonly used BYU ad (the ones shown during sports) had Stacey Harkey (of Studio C fame and who has since come out as gay) as the lead.
felixfabulous wrote:
I am of the opinion that the missionary program is answering the questions no one is asking. We are out telling people that we are the true church, we have the legitimate authority and people generally don’t care because no one is really talking about that these days.The questions they are asking are “how can I belong to something bigger than myself?” “how can I find a community?” “would being part of a church make my life better?”You can say what you want about the Church, but we (when it works) do community as well or better than anyone else out there. I see this ad as a first attempt to answer those questions and sell the Church based on community and not on truth claims.
Good point. Millennials, in particular, do seem to be asking the bolded question more than the seeking the “true church” questions. Millennials (and the next generation) also seem to not be so tied to physical connections, and tweeted or texted “sermons” are probably much more effective than an hour sitting in church at a specific time on a specific day (which sometimes is not in sync with their sleep schedules).
Thanks for sharing the Exponent article Nibbler. I agree with it, and could have given some of those responses when people I ran into in the supermarket while inactive would “invite” me back. (There were other issues there, of course – like why in the supermarket when I hadn’t seen you in three years yet you know my phone number, email address, and where I live?) I’m toying with sharing it with my SP, but I’m not sure yet. I like it, I like the message, but maybe it’s too pointed and with too many examples. I also think it may deserve it’s own thread.
Quote:The questions they are asking are “how can I belong to something bigger than myself?” “how can I find a community?” “would being part of a church make my life better?” You can say what you want about the Church, but we (when it works) do community as well or better than anyone else out there. I see this ad as a first attempt to answer those questions and sell the Church based on community and not on truth claims.
Queen of Millennial & Religious progression left the following as her final essay before her untimely death a few weeks ago. It’s a strong answer to these same questions.
Even though I am not a Millennial – I believe one of the reason’s I stay or am drawn to “church” are those same questions. Sometimes I find the answer. Sometimes I am the answer. Most of the time I want to be the answer because I believe in the best natures of us. I still haven’t figured out how to do it.
Nibbler – thank you. I am keeping a copy to carry with me.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/jesus-doesnt-tweet/2015/04/30/fb07ef1a-ed01-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story ” class=”bbcode_url”> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/jesus-doesnt-tweet/2015/04/30/fb07ef1a-ed01-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story jamison wrote:
Was I the only one offended by the Church commercial that show the visitors welcome sign on the Church building, and states toward the end: we can make you a better person, and you’ll help us become a better church? I know I dont have the quote right, but i thought to myself. I dont feel welcome at church, and I know a lot more people outside the church are better people than some inside the church. My wife is actually the one that brought the last sentence to my attention. It is true that Christ betters people, not the Church. I’m sorry this commercial is repulsive and wrong.
I’ve seen it, and it really didn’t bother me that much, probably because of the very last phrase: “You’ll help us become a better church.” To me it was saying that we know newcomers can bring something of worth to the table, and that with a give and take, everyone benefits. (Not that it always works that way, but the concept really didn’t bother me.)
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