Newbie

[Anonymous]

Welcome Jeff. I’m glad you joined us. I’m sorry to hear that things are tough for you. Once you pull at a thread…some things can start to unravel quickly.

Have you read the “How to Stay in the Church Essay“?

I would also recommend reading the Church’s essays onLDS.org. Those are good sources that others, like your wife, can’t have a problem with you reading, because it is approved church material. If you look on LDS.org under Topics, you’ll see several on polygamy, multiple accounts of the first vision, blacks and the priesthood and others.

My advice is for you to keep your feet under you and go slow. There is a lot (too much) that we were not taught as lifelong members, and it is frustrating we were not better taught our own history.

But the good news is, there are ways forward through this. Stay focused on the important relationships with your family and friends, and be skeptical, but be open to various sources of truth. I personally have not been able to prove the church is false…but I have expanded my view on what “True” means.

View your way forward as a personal study journey, and keep faith that there are things God wants you to learn.

Please keep posting here and searching the archives. Others have gone on the path you find yourself on. We are here to support. I look forward to learning from your posts and ideas.

[Anonymous]

Jeff, Glad you came here and I think you will be also. This is NOT a place that has a lot of judgmental thinking. We are all just trying to figure it out and there are many folks on many different levels. I know how you can’t discuss even the items you mentioned here, but most everyone here is familiar at some level with all you mentioned and can relate to the way you feel.

I do want to recognize that you feel like you are going through hell. I am about 2.5 years ahead of you on your tailspin (I was and am in a bishopric). I have been able to level the plane out and I would strongly encourage you not to bale out even though you would do almost anything to stop the feeling of going crazy over this stuff. If it is false – it will be false in a year or two from now. If it is something much more positive than that with some really unsavory and puzzling layers now exposed, you might be able to find the positive core and get your feet on the ground. I still feel betrayed by my church for withholding information from me. I am not pissed about it as I was a year or more ago, but still want to ask some folks, “WHY??????????”

Don’t take my suggestions as anything other than a suggestion. If it feels like it wouldn’t work – don’t push it. After all, I can’t talk with my wife about any of this other than a few minutes and she gives the TBM response of, “why do you even look at that stuff?” But I would suggest you make sure you don’t backslide on keeping the commandments so that she (or others) can make the claim that you are justifying sinning. Go read https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2013/04/lord-i-believe?lang=eng” class=”bbcode_url”>https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2013/04/lord-i-believe?lang=eng and https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2013/10/come-join-with-us?lang=eng” class=”bbcode_url”>https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2013/10/come-join-with-us?lang=eng. I think you can find some items in there that you can share with your wife to say, “I am honestly trying to figure this out.”

And for you personally, you might try giving a look at http://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/” class=”bbcode_url”>http://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/

I don’t have time to go into any more right at this moment, but I feel for you and I hope you reach a place of peace. I can’t tell you that it will take a month or a year, but I can say that over time I have been able to find some relief.

[Anonymous]

Welcome Jeff, you’ve come to what I consider to be a good place. I think you’ll find many kindred spirits here. I look forward to hearing more from you.

[Anonymous]

Jeff,

Welcome to the board! Glad you found us. I think most of us can sympathize with your situation. My wife is not very TBM, though she is not interested in leaving the church, however we are pretty open about what I think and feel and what I am reading or listening to. I have come to a place where I feel closely to how you feel, I don’t believe most of it, but I am open to the universe and I enjoy and have hope in some of the more interesting parts of the theology.

Find a few things to focus on, what can you have hope in? For example, I have hope in eternal community (the eternal family concept is kind of weird if everyone is going to be the same age) and I have a strong universalist bent, as in I think most people will be saved. So I will try to do the best I can, and ultimately if there is something I believe we will get what we want.

Find your own watering hole (per the Givens). Find other things that can help you find peace while attempting to keep peace by attending church or doing whatever you need to do – I enjoy reading and I have quit with the mormon history for a while. I have been interested in greek history and stoicism, and science fiction. So find other things that you can get interested in.

And come back and read (there are lots of threads) and be a part of the community if you need an outlet.

Peace to you,

SBRed

[Anonymous]

Welcome to the forum, Jeff. I can relate to your story as my wife is also a true believer and we don’t discuss much about what I don’t believe because we argue about it (she is very defensive of the church). True believers don’t want to admit there is a middle way, but you are right, they also pick and choose but don’t like to recognize or admit it (who really lives the letter of the law of the WoW?). Truth is things are not as black and white as most members like to think they are. I also agree with you that barring any major sins (adultery for instance) you are likely just as worthy to perform priesthood ordinances as anyone else – none of us are perfect, even those who think (or want you to think) they are.

You are right to want to be a part of the family/church milestones – baptisms, ordinations, sealings – don’t let go of that, one of the biggest regrets of my life is that I did let go of some of them. I believe that is what Pres. Uchtdorf is referring to when he says we should not let our doubts hold us prisoner. I am no longer prisoner to my doubts and I now appreciate them as much as I appreciate my faith because they are two ends of the same stick.

Yoda said that once one starts down the path to the dark side it will forever dominate his destiny – this is true from a certain point of view because now that you know what you know you can never go back to being the believer you once were. Understand and embrace that idea. You are not broken, but you have changed and you cannot change back just like a cake cannot change back into its different ingredients.

Moving forward: Take it slow, don’t dump all at once, focus on what you do believe. You told us what you don’t believe, and I’m right there with you as many others here are. My kids know I have some doubts and questions, the older adult ones know more than the younger ones. Nevertheless, they also know I believe in God, Jesus Christ, loving my neighbor, and other things. That I don’t believe in a God who helps us find our car keys is really of no consequence – they only need to know I believe in God. I have a temple recommend that I can say I am worthy to hold despite my doubts – it is possible. Look closely at the questions – you might be surprised at what they don’t ask.

Please come back and share with us. This is a safe place to explore your thoughts and feelings. I recommend the articles others have pointed out. Poke through the threads and look at things that interest you or that you have questions about. The biggest thing I did in helping me was try to separate the church and the gospel – and they are separate although some things are closely intertwined.

May you find the peace you seek.

[Anonymous]

Hi, Jeff. Welcome to the forum.

The advice has already been given, but take it slow. I sense a fair amount of despair and panic, which may just be me projecting what I was feeling when I went through my own FC but may also be valid emotions you may be feeling now. I remember how angry and desperate I was, because I could not bear to leave the church, as it would break my parents’ hearts.

Take a deep breath. You don’t have to solve it all in one night or even one week, one month, or one year. It’s an ongoing struggle, perhaps the hardest you’ll have to go through, but it can be very worth it in the end. When I came to this forum, I made two promises to myself 1) that I would only leave the Church once I had found peace with it, and 2) no one else would doubt because of me. I realized that just because I perceive something as untrue, it doesn’t mean it lacks significant value to someone else, and I never want to be responsible for taking something so valuable from someone I care about. That can be hard at times, keeping things to yourself. But it can work.

There are many, many ways to StayLDS. The big part of the journey is just finding what works for you.

[Anonymous]

Hey Jeff,

Welcome! It’s good to have you. You’ll find yourself surrounded by people who can relate to you here!

The effect that this kind of thing has on your family is definitely difficult. I had a very rough transition into finding my place after I first shared my feelings about the church with my wife. She’s doesn’t really ask about it anymore, and when she does, I give brief answers that won’t be too shocking for her, and I try to focus my gospel-related conversations with her on things that I DO believe. That’s different for everybody, but for me, I’ve found my foundation with Jesus Christ and the atonement. Beyond that, I’ve kind of erased the chalkboard and I’m starting from square one. Like DK said, it’s good to take things slow, because it gives you time to process where you are before you take another step in any direction.

And like West said,

West wrote:

just because I perceive something as untrue, it doesn’t mean it lacks significant value to someone else, and I never want to be responsible for taking something so valuable from someone I care about.

I avoid saying things around my wife and kids that would make them start to question their beliefs. Everybody has a right to find their own truth in their own time. It will be good to get to know what that is for you.

Welcome and good luck with everything you’re going through right now.

[Anonymous]

It’s late, and I have no time to comment at length, but I do want to welcome you.

I hope we can help you find the peace and personal path for which you are looking.

[Anonymous]

jeff wrote:

Now I am struggling to not lose my marriage and family with all of this!! My wife remains with conviction, even though she struggles mightily with polygamy and even though Joseph Smith was in fact an adulterer!! She feels that she can longer come to me for a blessing even though I think I am just as worthy as anyone else. Especially given the fact that it isn’t real, but also as far as the church is concerned, I am an ordained Elder and in good standing. I don’t know how to or even if I should discuss this with my kids. My youngest son will be 16 in May and expecting me to ordain him a Priest. Ultimately, I would prefer to leave the church, but only if I could take my family with me. If I can’t do that (and it would only be possible if my wife believed as I do) than I wish to find a middle ground as the article recommends and only if I am “fully” in the door… meaning… temple recommend, being able to perform Priesthood blessings/ordinations etc. I will not let the church separate me weddings, ordinations etc. My wife has told me that she doesn’t feel like she could come to me for a blessing because she doesn’t feel like there can be a middle ground (like this essay suggests.) She says, “You can’t pick and choose.” (Even though the vast majority of church members already do pick and choose. Whether how they pay tithing, obey word of wisdom, being honest with fellow man, keep Sabbath Day holy etc.)

I am unsure how I move forward…. Most of our discussions (with my wife) about this usually end up in arguments and that she is devastated and not getting what she has always hoped for. I try and avoid talking about it altogether but that doesn’t really help either. Especially when kids ask questions about the church, JS etc, or hearing that we should sign up for tithing settlement or when we are constantly being encouraged to go to the temple etc. I really am stuck here. Sometimes I wish I would have never come to know the truth and just remained in a state of faith. Albeit, a state of faith and false hope.

Oh Jeff, as I read your post it really resonated with me! I am much like your wife! Or at least was! My hubby found out some things quite by accident and when he came to me with his new knowledge I was completely unable to embrace any of it and was defensive too! It was a process for me to unravel what was really going on in our church. We have both been born and raised LDS and very active and involved members. He was an RM and we were married in the temple when he came home. We held many leadership positions over the years and lived very orthodox which is easy to do when you live in Utah especially Utah County some of the time. I was very threatened and defensive and completely devastated. If I can help you in anyway understand your wife, I would be happy to.

I do want you to know that this whole process is a journey and you will experience all kinds of emotions from anger to despair even hopelessness and desperation. However, please don’t give up and let yourself learn and be open and feel. I am at a place now that a year ago I would have NEVER thought I would be back then. My husband and I are so much closer although this faith journey initially put up many wedges and barriers. From my experience so far it seems that those I have met who initially were very orthodox, following the prophet with his every word etc seem to be the ones that fall the hardest. It is so confusing to come to the realization that the prophet is human and that the Ensign is not modern day scripture. Yes, I was told that and believed it for many years, that past prophets made many mistakes that I refused to even believe at first. (Instead thinking this was all anti Mormon stuff) Once I came through these first emotional roller coaster rides, I am currently at a place of much more peace. I no longer feel the need to accept every request made from me nor feel guilty about things I do not have time to do but instead am so happy to be at a place where I feel comfortable although my faith journey continues day to day. I do love helping and serving others and I find many ways to fill that need inside and outside the church. I have a deeper love for the gospel as opposed to the orthodox church protocol. If I am in a lesson that makes me feel uncomfortable I no longer see the need to sit and listen. I can get up and leave or head down to primary and sing in the back with my kiddos etc. I am a person who does not like confrontation although I will express myself when I feel that what I have to say will hopefully help others stop and rethink their own positions and when I say this I am referring more to the dynamics of the church vs information that could be life changing to others as we all here have been exposed to in one way or another. I personally have come to really appreciate the organization of the church in the many ways it lifts and helps as people however, I am able to turn the other cheek when things are to “mormony” now. We had some children baptized last year and we planned our own service for this as opposed to doing it with the stake because we wanted to be able to talk to our children in a more honest, we felt way, about this ordinance. It sounds like your wife is very threatened and wants to cling to everything she has always believed in. I understand that feeling. My ancestors are pioneers so we have grown up very proud of our religious heritage. It was shocking to learn some of these truths that we were never told before. Please don’t make any fast decisions. Take your time and let the information you have found simmer. You will most likely be exposed to much more. Not all of it will make you angry and as your own emotions evolve and grow through this process you will most likely evaluate the things you now know differently. I believe in family with a passion. I have a large family. Ultimately, that is the most important part of my life. It’s hard to believe that at one point I even felt that church should come before that. Some things I found out were reassuring too…For instance, when I found out that Mitt and Ann Romney were married civilly before being married in the temple very shortly after, (this I might add, was after the church came out with the current policy of having to wait a year to be sealed if a civil marriage was performed first.) I have changed my mind about the separation of temple marriages when special family members are not allowed to witness. I would most certainly consider this differently nowadays than I did initially. I also had a Laurel who served a mission beginning at age 19 when the age for girls to serve was 21 because she was on the track team at BYU and got hurt and they decided to let her go while she took time off to heal. It’s just not all as black and white as many of us members grew up being taught. You are among friends here. There are so many neat, honest people who I have benefitted from greatly. It’s so nice to have a place like this where we are able to listen and support each other.

[Anonymous]

Hi Jeff,

I’m sorry to hear of your struggles at present, but know you are among a group of friends who can truly empathize with you and the shock that is felt as the curtain is drawn back and new truths are revealed. It was extremely difficult for me to find this out in full force in my 50s and initially I felt extremely betrayed by my church. Fortunately, people like DJ and others gave the advice to go slow while figuring things out. So, that would be my advice here – take it slow and one day at a time.

I’m like your wife in that the polygamy thing was a very tough issue for me (I suppose it still it, but has changed into a part of our history I have become fascinated with). Maybe the church essays about that might give you and your wife some common ground to start with?? Not sure if she would be ready for this, but the “Year of Polygamy” Feminist Mormon Housewives podcasts are an excellent source of historical information about it and the lady who does them does a great job of sticking to the facts as they have been uncovered by historians and presented in the journals of early members.

My prayers are with you as you navigate through this challenging time.

[Anonymous]

Hi Jeff! Thanks for your introduction. I’m about your age and struggling with many of the same issues you are right now. My youngest son turns 16 next month and I’m not sure how that is going to go – being ordained a priest.

I don’t know that I can offer any advice because I’m really struggling myself right now. But know that you aren’t alone. My wife is a TBM and I love her with all my soul, but I can’t talk about any of this with her, unfortunately. There isn’t anyone else in my ward or my family that I can feel comfortable discussing my doubts and feelings, but thank goodness for this safe space that like-minded souls can come together to vent / get support.

[Author]

Posts