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I recently listened to Bill Reel’s podcasts about how leaders can help people who are struggling with faith crises or transitions, and I found them really helpful. I wish every Bishop would listen to these ideas if nothing more than to understand that we all struggle differently. One of the things Bill said is,
Quote:THOSE WHO ENCOUNTER MAJOR DOUBTS CAN’T GO BACK TO THEIR OLD WAY OF PUTTING THE PIECES TOGETHER. RATHER THEY MUST MOVE FORWARD AND REBUILD THEIR FAITH IN A DIFFERENT WAY.
During a recent conversation with some members in my ward (not about me, just a general conversation), one of my friends made the point that we need to keep doing the standard things– read the scriptures, pray, go to church, etc– while we are in a spiritual lull to support us until we get back on track. This idea was supported in the last General Conference as well– Rosemary Wixom’s talk and the other guy (I can’t remember his name at the moment) who had a sister who left the church and then came back. Both of these talks made it seem like people who leave or get spiritually derailed can come back to full TBM status with the right amount of the basics. No one said anything about these peoples’ faith being any different than it was before they had their challenges.
I guess what I’m asking is, can I go back? Is this just an ebb and flow, a hill and valley kind of thing? Am I just in a low spot, but I’ll get back to where I was before I became disillusioned? Or is that an impossibility?
I don’t believe I can ever go back. Somewhere on here there is a discussion about that. I like the description used in Sr. Wixom’s talk of the faith being left in ashes. I don’t describe mine that way, I describe it as rubble, some of which I used to rebuild my faith along with some new materials, but some material remained rubble. I have learned new truths, and I can’t go back to the old things I thought were truths. “Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.” You’re right, neither speaker in last conference mentioned the faith of the returnees as being different – but they implied it, especially Elder Nielson. Sr. Wixom did seem to indicate more so that “holding to the rod” was important, and for some it does work. For me, I can’t say that more prayer or more scripture study was or is the answer. I rarely pray, and I tend to focus my scripture study on the Bible, especially the words of Christ in the NT. I do not read scripture anywhere close to daily. I believe the BoM to be a good book, and I do believe people can become closer to God by reading it – and I believe the same about the Bible. In fact, I believe the Bible has brought hundreds of millions more closer to God than the BoM ever will. I believe scripture study and the influence of the Holy Ghost are very personal things, as is prayer. In both cases (Elder Nielson’s sister and Sr. Wixom’s friend) there were really two more important things that brought them back – love and patience (without hounding or coercion). In both cases it is pointed out that they came to themselves – perhaps God’s personal influence on them.
So, no, I won’t say it’s an impossibility for you to come back to full TBM status. I am active, I hold a leadership calling, but I am not TBM. I don’t know anyone who has returned after a faith crisis who says their faith is the same as it was before. Nevertheless, it could happen to you – but don’t count on it.
I can’t say for sure for everyone, but for me I don’t think there is any way to go back and I don’t THINK others can/will. Even if I received a visitation from Moroni 3 times in one night and I faint the next day. I may have more belief, but still not the same. No one knows what the future holds, or how life or death will change your perspective. But I know no way of going back to looking at things the way I did as a TBM. Mine eyes have been opened….and perhaps I see as the gods? (just kidding).
There are things I’ve learned thru exploring, research, experience, discussions and yes even personal revelation that have made me more educated about the church. For me personally the church obstructs the gospel. I can’t see the forest for the trees. To go back to the way it once was would be to deny my knowledge. SilentDawning wrote:No one knows what the future holds, or how life or death will change your perspective.
But I know no way of going back to looking at things the way I did as a TBM. Mine eyes have been opened….and perhaps I see as the gods? (just kidding).
Que sera, sera. The future’s not ours to see. Whatever will be will be. Que sera, sera.
Kipper wrote:There are things I’ve learned thru exploring, research, experience, discussions and yes even personal revelation that have made me more educated about the church. For me personally the church obstructs the gospel. I can’t see the forest for the trees. To go back to the way it once was would be to deny my knowledge.
I always had a bit of the church does not equal the gospel, but I consider them 2 very different entities now. I don’t even think a TBM would notice the difference if they heard “I know the gospel is true.” vs. “I know the church is true.”I vote no. Just as I can not return to any prior mortal time – 2 years old, 10 years old and so on, I can not return to what was. We have members on this site who have continued to StayLDS but their visions are different, none of them have become the children they once were. Great topic
Perhaps this is the new nibbler philosophy, there’s a song for everything. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LglwnZ6-pg4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LglwnZ6-pg4” class=”bbcode_url”> Ok, the silliness portion of my comment has come to a close.
NonTraditionalMom wrote:I guess what I’m asking is, can I go back? Is this just an ebb and flow, a hill and valley kind of thing? Am I just in a low spot, but I’ll get back to where I was before I became disillusioned? Or is that an impossibility?
First I’ll ask, do you want to go back?
My experience was that when I began to ask myself that very question it may have been an indication that I could no longer go back. I had doubted before the crisis but those doubts were never accompanied with wanting to go back to a previous mental state. When I asked myself that question I knew that something had changed.
The second question I’ll ask, what does getting back to where you were before mean to you? Back to more orthodox belief, back to a place where you feel at peace/happy, etc.?
Why go back when you’ve got two tickets to paradise? There I go being silly again but seriously… it may not feel like that’s the case when we are in the valley of indecision and uncertainty but there are hills going forward, I’ve seen them from afar. Sure, there are valleys too, but the hills are something to behold.
If you’ll humor me, one last Eddie Money reference:
Quote:You know the future’s lookin’ brighter
Every morning’ when i get up
Don’t be thinkin’ ’bout what’s not enough,now baby
Just be thinkin’ ’bout what we got
SilentDawning wrote:Mine eyes have been opened….and perhaps I see as the gods? (just kidding).
I wouldn’t kid about that. Own it.
:thumbup: I don’t remember Sister Wixom saying someone’s faith will return to exactly the same construct as it was prior to leaving/disengaging/becoming inactive/having a faith crisis. I think that is a mis-characterization of her talk. There is no way to go back to the exact same mindset – but there absolutely is a way to go back to activity, participation and belief/faith. The level and nature of those things might change, but it is possible to “go back” in a very important way. I think anyone who has been inactive in the past and now is active can testify to that – or even those who never have been inactive but whose faith has changed over time.
In my experience, my prior faith was based on certain assumptions and certain accepted “truths” to give me a perspective I had of the church and it’s teachings. Progress and increased learning have helped me see it differently now. Can I go back to believing it like I used to if I’ve learned new things? Probably not. Can I go back to believing and being active. That is my choice to find a way, and yes…I can.
So, it depends on what it is you are asking you want to go back to.
For example, let’s say I have found the story of Job to be an incredibly inspiring story in my life, it speaks to me about holding on to faith through adversity and how God is pleased with us when we do that. From that, I take lessons and apply them to my life about believing my adversities can be faced full of faith and hope that God has a plan for me, and a reward when I hold on to faith. OK. So that is what I believe.
Then…through study…I learn that scholars agree Job was not a real person. It was more likely a compilation of stories told over generations handed down in the oral history that was not literal or historic, but parabolic to teach lessons and values.
Once I’ve grasped the idea that Job isn’t a real person…then I may not be able to go back to believing that biblical story the same way, as a literal historical story.
BUT….all the teachings I find value about the story, all the applications to my life, all the meaning it brings to me…can I still believe in those? Sure. In some way…even more deeply because I’m not confined to a literal interpretation any longer.
So, just because I can’t go back and erase the things I’ve learned and believe it with the same assumptions I held before, doesn’t mean that I must discard it all and they are of no worth. I can return, and believe again…in a new way, in an enlightened way.
The other point is, there are so many aspects of the gospel. So, if I don’t believe Job was real, must I throw out the whole religion? No. Maybe I no longer find Job meaningful to me anymore…but the other bible stories can still be of value. The other teachings of the gospel can still apply to me and my family. The other aspects of faith and hope and good works are still there to believe in. And actually…now when I come across a bible story that makes it sound like God is a vengeful hateful God killing innocent women and children to give a promised land to one group of people…that so bothers me…that I can actually process things better because I no longer have to be confined to a “all in or all out” belief in the bible stories as we have them, or a black and white world. The ability to see it in new light creates a problem for some things I currently believe, but solves some problems that were paradoxes and troublesome before. So…going back would be just as problematic as it would be safe and comfortable for us, and it really isn’t an option any longer.
That is why the cafeteria approach becomes an option for those that need it. I don’t think you want to go back to ignorance. You move forward with experience and wisdom. And that can include the church. You can take those GC talks, and see that those can apply, even while you have your doubts or things you flat out reject about the church. The teachings can still apply.
It’s your religion now. You own it. You don’t need permission from others on how it works within your soul.
When you no longer believe in Santa Claus, you don’t stop celebrating Christmas. You just get over your shock that you didn’t know…and then go on celebrating it like the rest of the adult world, without going back to believing Santa Claus is literal but is a symbol of a bigger message that adults understand.
Heber13 wrote:It’s your religion now. You own it. You don’t need permission from others on how it works within your soul.
Spoken like a firm stage 5’er
Heber13 wrote:When you no longer believe in Santa Claus, you don’t stop celebrating Christmas. You just get over your shock that you didn’t know…and then go on celebrating it like the rest of the adult world, without going back to believing Santa Claus is literal but is a symbol of a bigger message that adults understand.
Nice analogy. Maybe to extend it (too far?), when Santa Claus stopped giving me physical gifts I didn’t stop celebrating it. Even once celebrating it started costing me I didn’t stop celebrating either.NonTraditionalMom wrote:I guess what I’m asking is, can I go back? Is this just an ebb and flow, a hill and valley kind of thing? Am I just in a low spot, but I’ll get back to where I was before I became disillusioned? Or is that an impossibility?
I can only speak for myself. I can’t go back to the exact same place, and I wouldn’t for all the tea in China. I don’t like much about my present condition, but it’s better than the alternatives.
NTM, I hope you’ll go back and read Sis. Wixom’s talk because to my mind it was significantly different than the others in that same vein. I see it as the camel’s nose under the tent, the foot in the door, the crack in the dam, the I-don’t-know-what before we finally
open upas a church to more diversity of belief. A woman posted at the “A Thoughtful Faith” Facebook site after conference and said that she was the teacher in Wixom’s talk. She talked about how unsettled and undecided she still is. But she’s moving forward in the church. Some of the other talks make it sound like person got offtrack, person wandered and questioned, person saw error of his/her ways, person came back. All better. So you all learn from her and don’t do that.
LookingHard wrote:Nice analogy. Maybe to extend it (too far?), when Santa Claus stopped giving me physical gifts I didn’t stop celebrating it. Even once celebrating it started costing me I didn’t stop celebrating either.
Exactly. THere are limitations to that analogy, I mean…with religion (Christ, atonement, God, revelation…) it works better when it is based on some things that are real and true, not just kids’ stories that are all mythical…but…the idea is that we may have understood the religion as a child before, not realizing we were taking things literally that were being fed to us when it was never written to be taken literally. It is a mind shift, but can help one work through how to keep a hold of faith and religion while letting go of previously held certainties that became uncertain.
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