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Beefster wrote:
When I began to let go of the idea that I am in control of the outcome of my life, I began to be a lot happier.
I’ve found this too. It’s been engrained into us, and not just in the Church, that we are in absolute, complete control of our destinies. Those who are rich and successful, are those who worked hard and deserve it. If you’re poor, it’s your own fault. Our business success, our relationships, our personality quirks, our health is all a result of what we do. And while I think this idea of “personal responsibility” can be motivating, it can also be dehibilitating.
In a way, I admire the worship of Tyche in the old Greek religion. She was the blind goddess of luck; unstable, inconsistant, blind luck. If a citizen made a fortune from the sale of property, he would go to the temple of Tyche and make a sacrifice in her honor. It was in noble recognition, not of his business prowess, but that forces outside his control granted him success. But when misfortune struck, despite their best efforts, they were able to recognize the fickleness of luck, and the role it played in their lives.
The “No other success…” quote has caused me more heartache than anything else I’ve ever heard in church. With two inactive adult kids, both living with significant others, I have apparently been a royal failure in the home. When my son was missionary-aged and there was a missionary farewell in our ward about three out of every four Sundays, I couldn’t get through Sacrament Meeting without literally bawling. And whenever one of the hymns sung was “Families Can Be Together Forever,” I’d just fall completely apart. Those days are long past, but I don’t think I’ll ever get over feeling like nothing else I’ve ever done in my life really matters because I didn’t raise two kids who are living the way I thought I was teaching them to. On the positive said, my son thinks my husband and I are the best parents in the world because we’re “so accepting and non-judgmental.” My daughter wouldn’t go quite that far, but we’ve got a decent relationship, too. Still, it’s hard. I wish so much that David O. McKay had realized what devastation that statement would bring into the lives of parents like me. nibbler wrote:
AmyJ wrote:
SilentDawning wrote:
Perhaps we need to define what “success in the home is”. What is it, and can this quote be considered somewhat harsh and destructive?
I think the great pitfall here is giving the church the power to define what a “successful” home is. The standard definition of church attendance, temple recommends, missions, etc relies on external benchmarks for a very internal, individual process
irregardless of circumstances.
:clap: This.
Yep.
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Heber13 wrote:
This quote SD brings up was one very damaging to my psychie as I went through the down times.At some point…I had to forget about quotes or what others thought or said about definitive statements on success or failure and take it in context of the point or message they are sending.
I have to be a cafeteria person and use my judgment to apply which quotes apply to which circumstances when discussing which principles of truth. That is how to develop wisdom.
The sad part about religion is that unlike secular wisdom, there is this undertone of “God said it”. “Inspiration”, conference talks being “scripture for the next six months”. You can’t openly pick and choose which quotes you will follow publicly — it has to be a private, personal decision.
My personal decision is to treat everything the GA’s, prophets and apostles say as mere opinion. Unless Ballard is talking about how to do brain surgery, Dallin H Oakes is talking about a point of law within his speciality, or Bednar is talking about how to lead a university, their opinions are simply lay opinions. They are not experts in everything, and they are not even experts in religion — the BYU professors in the religion area are the experts. And even then, the BYU professors are limited in what they can say to orthodox, supportive, faith-producing comments.
I’m so thankful that my own commitment crisis has liberated my thinking and cleaned out my BS filter to the point I can catch quotes like the one in the Opening post. Prior to my commitment crisis, I thought that was a great quote and would have been willing to cite it to anyone — even if they had tumultuous times at home. No longer.
There are many advantages to eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge.
Katzpur wrote:
I wish so much that David O. McKay had realized what devastation that statement would bring into the lives of parents like me.
You seem to have defined success as children following the textbook path of the church. I decided, when my son was obviously so uninterested in the church from a young age, and I had grown somewhat disillusioned with the church, that I would have to define success differently.
My criterion — he is happy. With this comes having stayed out of trouble, out of jail, out of problems with the law, and being someone who is generally kind. He is able to hold down a job and sustain himself, and dedicates a certain amount of time to helping others. I have taken “in good health” as far as preventative training allows, out of the equation since he has a chronic illness and the management of it has not been wildly successful, in spite of our best efforts. If you consider your own criteria for what defines success in the home, I think that makes President McKay’s statement much less biting and egocentric.
I will say this, the church seems to want to hold members fully responsible for failures and success, even when the agency of others is critical to achieving “success”. Take, for example, 100% hometeaching. You can’t ignore the fact that members don’t want to see you. So why saddle me with the “unsuccessful” label after i tried to see them? Same applies to the quote from DOM.
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