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Old-Timer wrote:Quote:
Unfortunately, this makes extreme modesty – even in situations where it is not justified by the setting or the activity – into a virtue.
I agree that this is unfortunate – and it is sad that people can miss the fact that it is extreme, and that those people can miss the fact that extremism is NOT modest.
Requiring people to dress inappropriately for the situation is not modest; by definition, it is immodest. Also, defining modesty exclusive as how we dress also is immodest, since it narrows a broad concept into one application – another form of extremism. Thus, what is taught so much is immodesty in the name of modesty.
If only that was understand by all the membership, it would change things in a fundamental and good way – so I would LOVE to hear it taught over the pulpit in General Conference. Everyone still wouldn’t get it and change immediately, but the foundation would be there for a “faithful” rebuttal to the too common crap with which we deal now.
So, on a personal level, I teach that simple concept – the real meaning of modesty. It’s what I can do, proactively, in my own sphere of influence.
Amen Ray! Amen!
I’ll try to give an example of a little good news from one corner of the planet. Our ward had a YW summer swimming activity, I saw the standards clearly printed in the announcement before the activity ever happened. I didn’t see my daughter on her way out the door to go, but I learned she didn’t meet to the letter all of the standards outlined. As far as I know not one word was said to her about it. hawkgrrrl wrote:Shawn, frankly, women, including me, don’t care one ounce what you do and don’t
buyabout why we wear what we wear. It’s none of your business, and your comments repeatedly demonstrate your complete ignorance of how women think on these matters. I’m not saying this in anger; I’m trying to help you see how completely ridiculous your assertions about what women think sound to actual women. My clothing choices have NOTHING to do with you or any other man, including my husband. I’m not going to a nightclub to pick up strangers when I wear yoga pants to the grocery store. Why is it any of your or anyone else’s concern? Simple answer: it’s not. If you’re going to sit back and say “Oh yeah, sure. Those women are trying to get male attention,” then you are not worth me wasting my time trying to convince otherwise. I have a hard time seeing your comments as anything short of misogynistic in their lack of understanding of how women think.
I didn’t intend to imply that men affect what you wear or that any woman is trying to pick up strangers. I already said “dressing modestly is good –not because immodesty might be a temptation to men” and “Men do attend girls camp, but that’s not the point – tight yoga pants are inherently inappropriate outside of the home so it doesn’t matter who is or isn’t looking.” I am sorry about the misunderstanding. I qualified my view on this when I mentioned “tight” yoga pants. To expand on that, some yoga pants are not too tight. There are different types of materials and some are less appropriate than others. Again, I disagree with the choice of some to wear yoga pants and other super tight clothing, but it’s their choice and I don’t look down on anyone or judge their worthiness for what they wear.
We should all be nudists then all this silliness would go away and we could focus on real issues Cadence wrote:We should all be nudists then all this silliness would go away and we could focus on real issues
I can testify, no joke, that you’re absolutely right. Realizing that without clothes we’re all different and all ok is something that is universally evident in a chaste social nudist/naturist setting. The people I see in those settings are infinitely more modest in their behavior and appearance than what what you see in persons whose clothing emphasizes status and sexuality. Cadence, I know you likely made your comment tongue in cheek but it’s the truth, and that’s a fact.
I live in the corridor, Idaho Falls, so I am constantly reminded of the dress code. This might not be at church but it always seems to be in the background. Things that come to mind are For the Strength of Youth, the temple recommend questions, and old practices based on leaders personal preferences. As I go through my daily activities when out and about and at church I wonder what’s up. Tight form fitting clothing is OK but bare shoulders and legs above the knees are not OK. Collar bones are almost scandalous. Watch out for earrings and tattoos but let’s go overboard with makeup and perfect hair. High heels to accentuate movement and shape.
Then there are sheer and semi sheer clothing showing off the garment in all it’s glory. Low cut pants and tops riding up to expose the garment.
Yes, we are a modest people that take the garment seriously. Is it like this outside the corridor? I don’t remember because I was only in small units before the collapse.
Thanks for letting me vent.
Actually outside the corridor it’s actually not so bad the majority of the time. I live in northern Illinois. I’ve heard Lehi, Utah, where my sister and her family, who aren’t members of the church, live near my brother, who is a bishop out there, aren’t too pushy about religion. My brother in the past has only been pushy with me in not watching R-rated movies, but that’s about it. I guess it all depends on where you live. Seems like I have been writing an awful lot lately, maybe too much. But this thread caught my eye and I didn’t see my take on the subject represented. Maybe by one other comment. Good thing these posts are anonymous. If anybody ever calls me on my identity, I reserve the right to deny, deny, deny. But here goes. I like yoga pants! It is so much more enjoyable watching them walking around in the grocery store than watching sweatpants. And I don’t believe that business about walking pornography either. There is just something joyful about seeing the feminine shape tastefully displayed (clothes worn matter of factly and not pretentiously). Granted there are sometimes when you need to do a turn and look off into the distance, but that is so even with short skirts and dresses when somebody new to them bends over suddenly without thinking about it first.
I’m afraid I also have to confess to enjoying staff meetings with some of the pretty young engineers at work before I retired. Some of them wore some pretty low cut tops, showing some cleavage. I had to keep my eyes pretty well riveted on their faces, which I think bothered them. What would they have preferred? I couldn’t figure out what. Eventually, I learned to sit on the same side of the table, but there was still plenty of places not to look.
Speaking of that, did you ever see the jokes where the pretty girl in the low cut top challenges the fellow in front of her with,”My eyes are up here, buddy!” The joke never shows his reply. Mine would be, “Yeah your eyes are pretty ma’am, but down there – hubba, hubba, Hubba!”
But seriously, when I took my first assignment in Houston, I was amazed and exhilarated to see so many well dressed attractive women walking about downtown. It was as uplifting as a garden in springtime. Not all the women would have been able to wear garments with their outfits, but they were a beautiful sight. Then, when I returned to my exile in the wastelands of the frozen north, it took awhile to cheer up. And not necessarily due to the need for ladies to wear more layers in the cold weather. The ladies in Minneapolis manage to look quite nice, despite very chilly weather. In fact, you can probably figure out where I live by going to the Salt Lake or Denver airports and looking for the out going terminal with the drabbist looking folks, men or women. If it wasn’t for DW up here, and the occasional pair of yoga pants in the grocery store, and before I retired the staff meetings at work, it’d be pretty grim around here.
Hmmm. I think I may have gotten off topic a little? There is one other thing somebody said that I wanted to comment on. That was that at girl’s camp, nobody would be seeing the girls in yoga pants but girls. I know in one case at least, that kind of thinking would only hold due to poor planning and bad luck on the part of certain individuals. I remember in my tender youth, convincing a buddy of mine to go on a camping trip with me. We were going to go make camp in the mountains, one ridge over from girl’s camp. We had the idea that maybe in the evening, we would go over the ridge and down to the lake across from the camp and see if the girls indulged in evening skinny dipping the way we sometimes did on camping trips. The problem with the planning was relying on a ’58 Rambler Classic for our transportation. Despite the size of the car, you could fit two people under the hood, one on each side of the minuscule engine. We couldn’t make it up the pass without people getting out and pushing. Then a bald tire blew out and there was no spare. We never made it anywhere near to the girl’s camp, and the modesty of our young women was preserved.
Again, I rely on this forum’s anonymity! Deny, deny, deny!
Not sure if I’m beating a dead horse here in reviving this thread. Didn’t read most of the posts. Any stake that does this is being short-sighted. I would suggest that having any dress code for girls camp is unnecessary and counterproductive. These girls know their own standards and are intelligent enough to follow them if they so desire.
In my ward in Colorado, girls camp this year had no dress requirements from what I could tell. I was a designated priesthood holder for one of the days (basically, we just got fed and sat around and watched movies. We were there just in case someone needed a blessing.) and I saw that at least half the girls wore short shorts and/or tank tops. But it wasn’t really an issue and it was actually probably a good thing overall. There were probably four girls who were inactive and girls camp was their only real contact with the church besides
maybehome teachers. That is going to make an impact. On an slightly unrelated note, I personally dislike yoga pants, but it’s because I always thought they looked dumb and not because I think they’re immodest. If you feel okay about wearing them, go for it. At least they’re super comfortable from what I hear.
Roadrunner wrote:
To solve this problem, my stake’s girls camp said no shorts of any kind, including for leader. Also, no two piece swimsuits no matter how modest. But, yoga pants are acceptable because I saw them. At least we have yoga pants.
Many, many, many years ago, I went on a church-sponsored trip from Salt Lake City back over the Mormon Trail to New York. I had just bought a new two-piece swimming suit (very modest) and was excited to get to wear it for the first time. Then came the ruling: No two-piece swimming suits. I was a teenager and it mattered very much to me to be able to wear my new swimming suit. My awesome dad, who always recognized the stupidity of some of these arbitrary rules, suggested I ask the leadership of the trip which piece of my new two-piece swimming suit I should leave home and which one I should take. I don’t think I bothered asking them. I just took the two-piece suit and wore it and nobody said a thing. These rules are sometimes beyond stupid.
Katzpur wrote:
Roadrunner wrote:
To solve this problem, my stake’s girls camp said no shorts of any kind, including for leader. Also, no two piece swimsuits no matter how modest. But, yoga pants are acceptable because I saw them. At least we have yoga pants.
Many, many, many years ago, I went on a church-sponsored trip from Salt Lake City back over the Mormon Trail to New York. I had just bought a new two-piece swimming suit (very modest) and was excited to get to wear it for the first time. Then came the ruling: No two-piece swimming suits. I was a teenager and it mattered very much to me to be able to wear my new swimming suit. My awesome dad, who always recognized the stupidity of some of these arbitrary rules, suggested I ask the leadership of the trip which piece of my new two-piece swimming suit I should leave home and which one I should take. I don’t think I bothered asking them. I just took the two-piece suit and wore it and nobody said a thing. These rules are sometimes beyond stupid.
I like your dad!
Your dad’s response was perfect. :clap: Our stake girls camp also said no yoga pants, no shorts, no capris. No bare shoulders either. Tighter dress rules at a girls camp than at a coed conservative high school… Or BYU for that matter. Cnsl1 wrote:no capris
Whaaaaaaaa????
🙄 Wouldn’t want those lesbians at girls camp to see your lower calves… So scandalous. I noticed today that my ward doesn’t really care what the girls are wearing to church. What matters is that they’re at church. Modesty should be a personal decision, not a rule.
I do consider modesty important in girls whom I date, but that is another issue entirely.
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