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Heber13 wrote:
If you want a TR, you pay for it.
You know, this is the naked truth right here. And when expressed this way, it really makes it seem like a very temporal and business like commandment. One that is questionable, in my view. I know it’s couched in spiritual reasoning at church — but ultimately, it’s a really, really big fee for certain blessings.
Indulgences promised forgiveness of sin for payment of money — the TR concept stops way short of that concept as there is no guarantee of salvation simply because you hold a TR. But when I hear it expressed like the phrase above, it sort of strengthens my commitment to not holding a TR. I would rather money was a free-will offering.
Well, if you don’t pay tithing and still want a TR you can always cut off all of your sources of “increase.” No increase. No tithing.
I’m still trying to figure out a way to turn over a tithe for my increase of 20 lbs of belly fat from last year. I suppose it would go under “other” on the tithing slip.
nibbler wrote:
Well, if you don’t pay tithing and still want a TR you can always cut off all of your sources of “increase.”No increase. No tithing.
I’m still trying to figure out a way to turn over a tithe for my increase of 20 lbs of belly fat from last year. I suppose it would go under “other” on the tithing slip.
I would give more than 10% to that!
SilentDawning wrote:
Heber13 wrote:
If you want a TR, you pay for it.
You know, this is the naked truth right here. And when expressed this way, it really makes it seem like a very temporal and business like commandment. One that is questionable, in my view. I know it’s couched in spiritual reasoning at church — but ultimately, it’s a really, really big fee for certain blessings.
Are you saying that the Church sells its tokens and signs for money? Because that’s exactly what it sounds like you’re saying. If so, I agree.
nibbler wrote:
I’m still trying to figure out a way to turn over a tithe for my increase of 20 lbs of belly fat from last year. I suppose it would go under “other” on the tithing slip.
If you’re really determined, you could do about 8000 calories’ worth of chapel cleaning. Then convert that into dollars assuming a reasonable hourly rate. Voila!
Heber13 wrote:
If you want a TR, you pay for it.
And, this is exactly why my relationship with the church has been much better since I gave up my recommend, years ago. I do the things that feel right between me and God; not between me and the church.
I have gone through 5 bishops in the past 3-4 years, and I’ve been very open about my doubts and questions with all of them. So, when tithing settlement comes around, I don’t hesitate to tell them that my wife is a full tithe payer, and that I am not. None of them have been surprised by my answer, because they’re already aware of exactly where I’m at with everything. Rather than paying 10% tithing, I pay 10% to Fast Offerings, because I’d prefer my donations to help people locally. I also pay 3% of my income to a local women’s/children’s center. I’ve never had any of my bishops get into it with me and try to convince me to pay tithing during tithing settlement, with my wife and kids in the room. I’ve already had the conversation with them 1-on-1. I know most people here don’t recommend being that open about your doubts, and it has bitten many people in the rear, but I just prefer to put it all out there and let the chips fall where they may. If your husband doesn’t want your bishop to know where he stands with things, he could always just say that he’s a partial tithe payer, and working on it. I think most bishops are going to be understanding if somebody hasn’t quite been perfect, but is making an effort.
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I know most people here don’t recommend being that open about your doubts, and it has bitten many people in the rear, but I just prefer to put it all out there and let the chips fall where they may.It is a problem being open with doubts when you are still in a position to want something from the church leaders — TR’s, recommendations for lesser ordinances etcetera. And sometimes, they will stop you from being allowed to speak or do HT, if you want to do that.
But I agree that not paying makes the relationship much easier — you expect nothing from it any longer. And you feel like a philanthropist when you do pay money to other organizations. I have long thought that if I was to give up the insane amount of money the church expects — paid to the church and no one else for a TR — that I would be more willing to pay it as a fast offering rather than tithing. At least then I know where it’s going.
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