November Speaking Assignment

[Anonymous]

Below is my speaking topic for November. I know that is pretty far away, however this topic is pretty core to things that I struggle with (the idea of hope vs. faith vs. knowledge).

I absolutely do not believe that doubt is a bad thing (although if coupled with despair I think it can be). I am speaking to a smaller ward, but I am hoping to take the next couple of months to really think through this topic. I plan on reading the Givens new book. If anyone has any thoughts or references to the topic please send it my way. I don’t plan on announcing my agnosticism from the pulpit, but I do plan on talking about how doubt can actually be productive and useful and help us and challenge us and how our faith in Christ can help make us better people regardless of our doubts.

Probably not the discussion my SP would prefer but I am completely unwilling to make anyone feel badly for doubting and in fact want to recognize the courage it takes to be hopeful and faithful amidst doubt. Below is what we were given this month for prep materials. Again, my man crush on Elder Uchtdorf continues to grow after reading his talk below.

Also, this is an excellent Ted talk related to this idea of tension between faith and doubt: (I don’t agree with everything the speaker says, she does not speak favorably of fundamentalists of any stripe and I cringed a bit. However her points about doubt and faith, in my opinion, are worth the listen.) http://www.ted.com/talks/lesley_hazleton_the_doubt_essential_to_faith?language=en” class=”bbcode_url”>http://www.ted.com/talks/lesley_hazleton_the_doubt_essential_to_faith?language=en

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“The Infinite Power of Hope”

– Hope is a gift of the spirit

– Hope is one leg of a 3-legged stool. Along with faith and charity, these gifts stabilize our lives regardless of what we may encounter

– Hope is the abiding trust that the Lord will fulfill His promises to us

– Doubt and despair, the opposite of hope, lead us into temptation. Doubt and despair also lead to selfishness

– Doubt, despair and desinsitization go together, and offend the spirit –

– Faith, hope, charity and patience go together and are Godly attributes – (See Romans 5:3-5)

– What brings hope? Obedience, Service & Personal religious behavior

Sources:

The Infinte Power of Hope Dieter Uctdorf, GC, October 2008

Liahonahttps://http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2008/10/the-infinite-power-of-hope?lang=eng” class=”bbcode_url”>http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2008/10/the-infinite-power-of-hope?lang=eng

Hope Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ Neil A. Maxwell, GC, October 1998

https://http://www.lds.org/general-conference/1998/10/hope-through-the-atonement-of-jesus-christ?lang=eng&query=hope” class=”bbcode_url”>http://www.lds.org/general-conference/1998/10/hope-through-the-atonement-of-jesus-christ?lang=eng&query=hope

[Anonymous]

Recently I’ve been meditating on John’s account of Thomas doubting the resurrected lord. There’s certainly a line that can be drawn between doubt and incredulity but in my meditations I tried to get inside the mind of Thomas to see what I could learn about myself. One conclusion: doubt can serve as motivation/inspiration for personal progress. Doubt, especially self doubt, can also be damaging to personal progress.

When I project myself into Thomas:

Resurrection is a foreign concept, it’s almost too fantastical to believe. (Side note: Thomas is treated with a heavy hand but we forget that the other disciples had trouble believing even while in the presence of the resurrected Jesus)

Eight days go by. Eight days where anxiety takes over and self doubt begins. Jesus showed himself unto my peers. Why didn’t the lord show himself to me too? The most pressing doubt I have has changed from “did Jesus resurrect” to “What did I do wrong?” The outward manifestation of demanding a personal witness is my way of disguising my innermost anguish over feelings that I may not be accepted by the lord. I will not feel accepted until I get a personal visitation, hence the demand for one.

Martin Harris also provides a modern day example/window into the dangers of self doubt. “Why can’t I see the plates?” doesn’t reflect a concern over seeing golden plates. It reflects a concern over whether or not the lord disapproved of him.

Maybe people that have not seen, yet believe are blessed just because they miss out on all that anxiety that self doubt can produce. Just a random thought.

As an aside:

Some people point out that had Thomas left the company of the disciples during those eight days that he would have never seen the resurrected lord. In the end he was able to get his wish because he persevered despite doubts. He had enough faith to remain with the saints.

[Anonymous]

I have put together a rough draft of the talk that I would give in your position. You may use any or all of this.

Hope, faith, and doubt can only exist in the absence of sure knowledge.

Hope/faith cannot exist without an element of doubt/uncertainty.

It is customary in our culture to talk of knowledge of religious things. Absolute knowledge is brittle. It cannot be modified or adjusted. This can make us resistant to learning and growing as God would have us do.

Hope/faith exists in an environment where there is evidence both for and against. It involves making an active choice to choose the more ennobling path in the face of contradictory evidence.

The following quote illustrates hope in my mind. Fiona Givens personal creed. Taken from a George MacDonald book.

Quote:

“Even if there be no hereafter, I would live my time believing in a grand thing that ought to be true if it is not. No facts can take the place of truths, and if these be not truths, then is the loftiest part of our nature a waste. Let me hold by the better than the actual, and fall into nothingness off the same precipice with Jesus and John and Paul and a thousand more, who were lovely in their lives, and with their death make even the nothingness into which they have passed like the garden of the Lord. I will go further, Polwarth, and say, I would rather die for evermore believing as Jesus believed, than live for evermore believing as those that deny him.”

Because of the uncertain position of hope – it is a perfect antidote to conceit, pride, and self-righteousness.

To those in the audience who have experienced doubts I say, “Good for you.” You are engaged in the game. You are learning & changing – questioning & growing and may find yourself in a position were God can reveal something personal & astounding. Our church is founded upon a young boy wrestling within himself and stepping forward with hope & faith.

Quote:

“Latter-day Saints are not asked to blindly accept everything they hear. We are encouraged to think and discover truth for ourselves. We are expected to ponder, to search, [&] to evaluate”

Quote:

“Walk in nature, watch a sunrise, enjoy God’s creations, ponder the truths of the restored gospel, and find out what they mean for you personally.”

Dieter F. Uchtdorf

Quote:

I am not asking you to pretend to faith you do not have. I am asking you to be true to the faith you do have. …. And remember, in this world, everyone is to walk by faith….

A 14-year-old boy recently said to me a little hesitantly, “Brother Holland, I can’t say yet that I know the Church is true, but I believe it is.” I hugged that boy until his eyes bulged out. I told him with all the fervor of my soul that belief is a precious word, an even more precious act, and he need never apologize for “only believing.” I told him that Christ Himself said, “Be not afraid, only believe,”

Lord I believe Jeffery R Holland

So what do you hope for? What do you believe in? Is it enough for us to stand shoulder to shoulder in love & fellowship? Is it enough for us to band together as a community & strive to make the world a better place? Is it enough to claim membership in a group of imperfect individuals just trying to walk each other home? I hope so.

I gladly extend my hand to each of you and call you brother or sister. We are in this journey together and all are needed. I pray that God will bless our sincere efforts & say these things in the name of….

[Anonymous]

Roy wrote:

So what do you hope for? What do you believe in? Is it enough for us to stand shoulder to shoulder in love & fellowship? Is it enough for us to band together as a community & strive to make the world a better place? Is it enough to claim membership in a group of imperfect individuals just trying to walk each other home? I hope so.

I gladly extend my hand to each of you and call you brother or sister. We are in this journey together and all are needed. I pray that God will bless our sincere efforts & say these things in the name of….

Beautiful! Thank you!!

[Anonymous]

Sunbelt – The Givens recently did an AMA on reddit and Terryl talks about doubt, faith, belief in it. Also Fiona encourages the idea that our testimonies should be what we hope or desire – not what we know.

I also carry an article from the New Yorker about doubt and it’s power for motivation in life – not so much religious but it has inspiring ideas in it.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/06/24/the-gift-of-doubt

The Givens AMA is herehttp://http://www.reddit.com/…/2ft31x/i_am_fiona_givens_ama/

http://www.reddit.com/…/2g08u4/i_am_terryl_givens_ama/

Good luck. Can’t wait for the return and report section.

[Anonymous]

I have written about faith, hope, doubt, etc. a lot on my personal blog. I have WAY too much to say to try to summarize anything here. Go to my blog and click on the label links for anything that relates.

Also, look through the “Quote of the Day” and the “Chieko’s Corner” threads. There are some wonderful quotes in those threads about your topic.

[Anonymous]

This topic lies very close to the things that I struggle with, as well. As I read over the prep materials that you were given, I was struck by the different ways in which some of the words are being used. I think there’s an implied definition that may be different from the one that you or I might have as a result of our thoughtfulness and study. Jeff Burton highlights this difference really well in his book For Those Who Wonder:

Jeff Burton wrote:

2. Doubting is not necessarily a rejection of God or the church.

Again, it is important to recognize the multiple meanings of doubt. In its modern, constructive sense, it means to be unsettled in belief or opinion, to be uncertain or undecided. It implies a lack of information or evidence upon which to base a belief. Doubt, according to this usage, is an inevitable consequence of a maturing, inquiring mind and should be managed, not denied.

In contrast, the more traditional meaning of doubt is the notion of distrust or disloyalty. In a religious context, doubt is often associated with a rejection of God and a thankless denial of his goodness. Naturally, in this context, it has a negative connotation.

Helping Suggestion: Point out that those who are aware of differences of meaning can avoid being hurt (or avoid offending others) by choosing their words carefully and defining any likely-to-be misunderstood expressions.

I think the way “doubt” is used in your notes more closely aligns with the way Burton describes the more traditional or religious use of the word. It might be helpful to explain this difference in shades of meaning, or simply to be aware of it and make sure you use your language carefully. Instead of saying “doubt” you might instead talk about “feeling uncertain” or “having sincere questions.” There are lots of other great quotes from Burton’s book. I recommend checking it out, especially the first chapter.

I also thought of a quote from Terryl Givens’s “Letter to a Doubter,” which reflects what others have said:

Terryl Givens wrote:

The call to faith is a summons to engage the heart, to attune it to resonate in sympathy with principles and values and ideals that we devoutly hope are true and which we have reasonable but not certain grounds for believing to be true. There must be grounds for doubt as well as belief, in order to render the choice more truly a choice, and therefore the more deliberate, and laden with personal vulnerability and investment. An overwhelming preponderance of evidence on either side would make our choice as meaningless as would a loaded gun pointed at our heads. The option to believe must appear on one’s personal horizon like the fruit of paradise, perched precariously between sets of demands held in dynamic tension. Fortunately, in this world, one is always provided with sufficient materials out of which to fashion a life of credible conviction or dismissive denial. We are acted upon, in other words, by appeals to our personal values, our yearnings, our fears, our appetites, and our egos. What we choose to embrace, to be responsive to, is the purest reflection of who we are and what we love. That is why faith, the choice to believe, is, in the final analysis, an action that is positively laden with moral significance.

The call to faith, in this light, is not some test of a coy god, waiting to see if we “get it right.” It is the only summons, issued under the only conditions, which can allow us fully to reveal who we are, what we most love, and what we most devoutly desire. Without constraint, without any form of mental compulsion, the act of belief becomes the freest possible projection of what resides in our hearts. Like the poet’s image of a church bell that only reveals its latent music when struck, or a dragonfly that only flames forth its beauty in flight, so does the content of a human heart lie buried until action calls it forth. The greatest act of self-revelation occurs when we choose what we will believe, in that space of freedom that exists between knowing that a thing is, and knowing that a thing is not.

This is the realm where faith operates, and when faith is a freely chosen gesture, it expresses something essential about the self.

[Anonymous]

I think “Hope vs. Faith vs. Knowledge” is a fantastic subject. I have heard all 3 validated from the pulpit as authentic and faithful positions for members to hold on virtually any gospel topic.

I would look up the scriptures that address “to some it is given to know, and others to believe…” etc.

[Anonymous]

Hi SBR,

For me, hope is the most important and maybe the most enduring of the three legs. I believe one can have hope when the other two seem to be hiding. I may be in the pit of despair, unable to exercise faith or charity, but can still hope someone will rescue me. Faith and charity imply action on our part but doesn’t to me. Its a belief, a state of mind.

best wishes, I’d like to hear how it goes.

[Anonymous]

Roadrunner wrote:

Hi SBR,

For me, hope is the most important and maybe the most enduring of the three legs. I believe one can have hope when the other two seem to be hiding. I may be in the pit of despair, unable to exercise faith or charity, but can still hope someone will rescue me. Faith and charity imply action on our part but doesn’t to me. Its a belief, a state of mind.

best wishes, I’d like to hear how it goes.

I agree with this. I certainly have more hope that Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ exist than I have faith that they do. It was actually only after my faith crisis that I figured out the difference in the two.

I also believe that faith could not exist without doubt, that without doubt faith would not be necessary, and that doubt can strengthen faith. I also believe knowledge negates faith – if we really and truly know – like see it with our own eyes know – there is no need for faith. Unfortunately I have not had a ton of time lately to explore that further and correlate it with what GAs have said. When I have gently bounced these ideas of more orthodox types they meet with fairly firm rejection – but I think that’s more out of fear of doubt than anything else. I have admitted in SM talks that I am not free of doubt, after quoting Pres. Uchtdorf with the “great oaks of understanding,” then referring back to how doubt (Uchtdorf’s sandy soil) has helped my faith (great oaks). I also refer to the Uchtdorf’s idea that one of the purposes of the church to to cultivate faith – even in those who doubt, but that doubt is more of a place we are (sandy soil) as opposed to a state of being. I also like Alma’s seed analogy to a certain extent – especially the part about having no more than a desire to believe. Sometimes that desire is all we have and for some of us, I think, our “faith” will never go beyond that – but if God really does exist and if he is really as just and merciful and loving and forgiving as most of us believe he is, that will be enough. Hopefully I’ll be able to contribute more before you have to actually write your talk.

[Anonymous]

I have some thoughts on this topic. They are more from a leadership perspective, if you want to go there. Gallup, the mega-research firm, wrote a book called Strengths-Based Leadership, and they found people want the following from leaders — Hope (and three other factors) .

For me, hope comes from leaders painting an optimistic, inspiring view of the future. That is SO MISSING in most experiences I’ve had with leaders in my life. Very few inspire me that way. I see the topic focusing on the need for leaders to develop themselves to gain the knowledge they need to lead effectively. One could quote many good books, such as Leadership Jazz or the Art of Leadership, or even Leading without Power (a book about how to lead in non-profits). Leaders need to have faith in their ability to effect change, and to rely on God to help them. And they need to exude confidence from this faith, as well as the credible, positive view of the future. As a result, they create hope in their followers who buy into that bright future, and help create it. I see hope as an outgrowth or biproduct of faith. Just as boiling water gives off steam, faith breeds hope and optimism.

I would also pull in some ideas from positive psychology, drawn from Martin Seligman, the psychologist. He said that hopeful, optimistic people see challenges as temporary, isolated, and not always their own fault. People who lack hope see their challenges as permanent, affecting all aspects of their lives, and their own fault. I would argue that good leaders help their followers see the temporariness of the current challenges, the extent to which they are isolated, and help them see challenges are not a result of their own lack of faithfulness, or other faults (as our religion sometimes makes us believe).

Anyway, I talk too much. But these are my thoughts on knowledge, faith, and hope.

[Anonymous]

Hi SBR,

I don’t have a lot I can add here other than just my encouragement. I have seen many of your posts since you joined and appreciate much of what you say – you have some great insights into gospel topics and some alternative views that I think can resonate with many members like me.

While I did not not feel I could add to your scripture study thread since we as a family just basically read from the Book of Mormon when the kids were in high school, I loved your commentary on the Jonah story to your six year old. Very refreshing and true!

I will mention one short story about the “farewell” of my home teaching companion’s missionary son this summer because I was touched by his sincerity. At the part where it came for him to share his testimony at the end of his talk, he started out by saying something like “I want you all to know that I know that the…” and then he stopped himself and changed it to “I believe that the church is true”. I don’t know how the rest of the congregation felt about this and I only mentioned my observation to my wife (who also loved it). It was great to see such honesty and commitment to fulfill a mission although he apparently had his doubts.

He has been in Kentucky now for some months and his father reports that his is doing well. I figured he would be – good kid.

[Anonymous]

Here are some suggestions from my personal blog:

“I Wish We Talked about Faith More and Knowledge Less” (http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2014/08/i-wish-we-talked-about-faith-more-and.html)

“Over-Valuing Knowledge at the Expense of Faith” (http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2013/10/over-valuing-knowledge-at-expense-of.html)

“Accepting Those Who Believe but Can’t Say They Know” (http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2011/07/accepting-those-who-believe-but-cant.html)

“Letting Go of Knowledge and Returning to Faith” (http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2011/03/letting-go-of-knowledge-and-returning.html)

“Killing Faith” (http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2010/02/killing-faith.html)

“Of Knowing and Believing” (http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2009/10/of-knowing-and-believing.html)

[Anonymous]

One more:

“Mini-Rant: Faith is NOT a belief that the light will go on when the switch Is flipped” (http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2013/03/mini-rant-faith-is-not-belief-that.html)

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the thoughts and ideas.

I started reading Jeff Burton’s “To Those Who Wonder” today during fast and testimony meeting (kind of an interesting juxtaposition).

Ray, will read those posts. Thank you for aggregating.

-SBREd

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