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Brian, OMG. That was funny. Thanks. Geez, Cwald. I don’t know what to say. You must be an amazing person for people to feel that threatened, and your reply was much more mature than I would have been. Your brother’s email is stereotypical of the type of thinking that’s wrong in this church, and TBM’s are so blind to it. Someday, perhaps, your brother will sit back and read that note with a little more thought and empathy, and regret having put things the way he did. Remain firm and comfortable in the thought that you are right, for you, and will not cede to rhetoric, hyperbole, or any other defense mechanisms except logic, reason and compassion. Christ would do no less, and you could always remind your brother of that…naw, maybe not. Sending positive wishes your way. Latterday Skeptic
So does that mean they think Satan is gay? Or bisexual? Cuz I sort of picture Satan frequenting strip clubs with gold chains around his neck. I’m not totally seeing the connection here . . . cwald wrote:I would guess that my brothers, most of my family would certainly be hard-core Guardians for sure. What were you thinking?
Well, yeah, guardian. Your brother’s letter reads like a page from the lds-guardian’s handbook on how to respond to people you think may be satanic and/or gay. It’s so transparent it’s almost funny. But I don’t want to make fun of these people, I’d like to be able to understand them a little better. So this was an honest attempt to see if you thought your brother had any other characteristics that guardians share, whatever they are, and to try to resist the urge to just stamp a label of ‘guardian’ on him.
doug wrote:cwald wrote:I would guess that my brothers, most of my family would certainly be hard-core Guardians for sure. What were you thinking?
Well, yeah, guardian. Your brother’s letter reads like a page from the lds-guardian’s handbook on how to respond to people you think may be satanic and/or gay. It’s so transparent it’s almost funny. But I don’t want to make fun of these people, I’d like to be able to understand them a little better.
So this was an honest attempt to see if you thought your brother had any other characteristics that guardians share, whatever they are, and to try to resist the urge to just stamp a label of ‘guardian’ on him. Well damn. I guess I failed then.
🙂 cwald wrote:Well damn. I guess I failed then.
🙂 No biggie. Thanks for reinforcing my stereotypes.
:thumbup: hawkgrrrl wrote:So does that mean they think Satan is gay? Or bisexual? Cuz I sort of picture Satan frequenting strip clubs with gold chains around his neck. I’m not totally seeing the connection here . . .
No, they think Satan is a liberal..
Cwald — honestly, I think this is another case of keeping one’s doubts and concerns to themself is a wise move. I know it’s hard, but it upsets people who are in Stage 3 thinking. I have a brewing health problem right now, and it drives me nuts. I decided give years ago, when the presenting symptoms occurred, that I would not tell my Mom and Dad. This is to make their life better. My mother, particularly, worries about health matters, and since I’m in a different country right now they never see me, and wouldn’t have to know about it. I NEVER talk to them about my health problem. It would only make their lives full of worry about something they can’t control. Every time they call, I’m disciplining myself not to share that with them, although I would love their support or even just the opportunity to talk about it. And when I get off the phone, I feel that I have done good in helping them keep their inner peace. So, why not look at silence about this to your family as your gift to them? You do feel some positivity about the Church; find ways of sharing only that with them, or letting the positive things you do in the Church leak out to them…neutralize all this….when the time comes that you see everyone again, you’ll feel much better being on common ground, notwithstanding your disagreement in other, unstated ways.
I feel a lot of self-respect when I get off the phone from my parents and haven’t shared my health problem and symptoms. And I feel good knowing I didn’t disturb their peace. Consider making that your goal, rather than being candid. I think you’ll feel better afterwards. Personally, with this site available to express one’s true feelings about Church matters, I feel no need to drive a further wedge between myself and the Church by being so frank about the warts I see on our Church experiences.
However, to quote the great philosopher Schultz, from Hogan’s Heroes (modified to advice-giving) “I know NOTHING!”.
True SD, and good advice. I agree with you. I think I described how this all started this time in another thread. But just a reminder – my parents CALLED ME and and said that the family was talking and wondering why my daughter had a picture of herself in a prom dress on her facebook page — because she shouldn’t be dating because she isn’t 16 yet.
So yeah, I need to keep my mouth shut — but it would be nice if they would let me live my life too. Perhaps that is asking too much from a militant mormon orthodox family? They baited me this time, and I was stupid enough to fall into into.
Also, in my defense — I MOVED to Oregon so I wouldn’t have to do this kind of thing! I moved. I moved so I could find peace, and so I wouldn’t be a “distraction” to everyone. I only talk to family a couple times a year on the phone, I only see family once a year at best – and it never goes well.
cwald wrote:True SD, and good advice. I agree with you.
I think I described how this all started this time in another thread. But just a reminder – my parents CALLED ME and and said that the family was talking and wondering why my daughter had a picture of herself in a prom dress on her facebook page — because she shouldn’t be dating because she isn’t 16 yet.
So yeah, I need to keep my mouth shut — but it would be nice if they would let me live my life too. Perhaps that is asking too much from a militant mormon orthodox family? They baited me this time, and I was stupid enough to fall into into.
Also, in my defense — I MOVED to Oregon so I wouldn’t have to do this kind of thing! I moved. I moved so I could find peace, and so I wouldn’t be a “distraction” to everyone. I only talk to family a couple times a year on the phone, I only see family once a year at best – and it never goes well.
I think the physical distance concept is a great one. I have used the same approach with my anti-Mormon parents.
Have you considered some boundary-setting statements that you keep in our back pocket when these baiting moments happen? It’s clear they aren’t going to respect your view of the world….so…having some well-prepared statements that kindly shut the conversation down, or divert it into a new direction might help. I had to use one the other day with this really annoying manager I don’t report to, but have a dotted line relationship with. It really stopped her, and she was confused about how to answer, and then backed away completely. The relationship didn’t seem to have suffered at all….
Interesting, my ONE NORMAL brother, who lives in DC, sent me this email today. Perhaps he has more NOM/Staylds in him than I thought? Quote:I think your problem is that you are working with an audience that has absolutely no sense of humor or understanding of, or ability to appreciate and digest irony or sarcasm.
Everything is absolutely literal to them and deadly serious.Of course it doesn’t help that most of them have never left the confines of southern Idaho (pronounced Utah), so they don’t understand that there are actually a whole lot of people out there that are perfectly happy and content without being a devout, militant Mormon…including about 12,000,000 Mormons.Every just giggle when you imagine the response when the church comes out and starts endorsing the 144,000 limit on those that can/will be saved and the rest of us get to burn in hell for eternity. How many walds get to make that list?…
Yeah, you’re an idiot, not because you’re actually ignorant or stupid, but because you’re a little rough around the edges (you inherited your sense of tact from your father, even though neither of you are probably real familiar with the word or its application), a little too edgy for the milque-toast crowd,
and think any “worldly” growth has taken place in Weston in the last 20+ years.Very good. Very well said brother.
:clap: It seems like you’ve have at least one family member on your side. I bet you let out a sigh of relief after you read that one. It amazes me how different world views become once a person leaves the mormon corridor or in my case, when we meet perfectly happy people who have high moral standards, are spiritual but aren’t religious. Our views deepen, broaden, beautify and allow for the “edginess” of others. Bless you,
CG
cwald wrote:doug wrote:Hey funny thing, A different brother called me up yesterday, because he had heard of my recent troubles from the home front. This brother lives in D.C. and is in the military and staunch republican. I briefed in him on the whole thing, and he disagreed with me of course —- civilly.
:clap: I asked him after-wards if he thought I was gay and satanic. His response was “No. I think you areliberal,😈 which in the mormon world is a hell of lot worse than being gay or satanic.” We had a pretty good at that.
I’m just getting to know you, cwald, but as a liberal Mormon myself, I’m finding that I like you more with each post I read.Your brother makes a lot of sense. I certainly don’t think you’re evil! Sometimes service and kindness are the best way about this. If you are kind to people, and make them feel good, they’ll realise you haven’t gone completely over to the horned one.
Quote:His response was “No. I think you are liberal,
😈 which in the mormon world is a hell of lot worse than being gay or satanic.” We had a pretty good at thatHe used the word “Hell” ???
😮 Sounds like he is slipping into Satan’s grasp, right there next to you!
🙄 JK. You both sound normal. Its good when you can be real with family, and not so uptight about stuff, don’t ya think?
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