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I happened upon this editorial today on NPR, and thought it contained some valuable stuff for my staylds friends: http://www.npr.org/2011/12/20/144026606/a-quest-to-seek-the-sublime-in-the-spiritual ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.npr.org/2011/12/20/144026606/a-quest-to-seek-the-sublime-in-the-spiritual Very interesting stuff.
Great article. Thanks for sharing it, ss – and good to “see” you again! Thanks. I loved the concept, “Truth is what works”.
Also, referring to the relationship between science and religion, “Now that we have the microwave oven, we have no use for Shakespeare.” .
Nice concept. Be nice if more LDS thought more that way instead of the one truth scenario. It seems whenever someone can not accept religion as is they nuance it to the point of acceptance in their mind. In essence they create a new religion based on their personal wants and desires. This is probably how all religions start, breaking from the establishment. Somewhere back in time there was the original spiritual leader of the first human tribe that came up with the concept of God. From there it has been an ongoing project to find him/her. What do you think he meant by this statement? Quote:
I met a Kabbalist in Israel named Avraham, and he explained it like this. For years, he read religious texts but always wondered: “How do they know that?” One day, he shifted the question to: “What do they mean by that?” A subtle shift, but a crucial one, he told me.How is this a crucial shift? How does it help you be happy?
All I can see is that it sidesteps the issue of truth, making the statement a person’s opinion that needs to be understood or evaluated. but I don’t see how the distinction is crucial — as the author says “truth is what works for you”.
It allows you to see the meaning behind the myth, or story or principle. The point is that the verifiable truth of something is less important than the practical meaning and application that comes out of it. I thought it useful for the staylds bunch, because part of what causes our crisis of faith is realizing somewhere along the line that something that we had taken for a binary truth was in fact, misrepresented, or not what it originally seems, or outright false. I think it’s a handy coping tool for such situations. Quote:I met a Kabbalist in Israel named Avraham, and he explained it like this. For years, he read religious texts but always wondered: “How do they know that?” One day, he shifted the question to: “What do they mean by that?” A subtle shift, but a crucial one, he told me.
That was one of my favorite parts of the article.
We have become obsessed with knowing – and I don’t mean just in our Mormon culture. Our entire modern society is based on the prusuit of knowledge – and, while the pursuit of knowledge is important, it often obscures the underlying meaning of our view of things and can (and does) attack the foundation of faith that is necessary to continue to seek new knowledge as openly as possible.
Let me try to be plainer in answering your question, SD, about why it’s so important to make the internal paradigm shift about which you asked:
“How do they know that?” is a skeptical, doubting, negative-side-of-the-coin perspective / launching pad – strictly because, when it comes right down to it, the only “right” answer in the realm of religion is, “They don’t.” End of inquiry – beginning of cynicism.
“What do they mean by that?” is a very different question. It is focused on understanding, empathy, connection, unity, etc. It addresses the potential to learn from what can’t be “known” – and, thus, is not the self-defeating exercise of the other question. It allows for growth and change of perspective and “additional light and knowledge” – or, iow, “continuing revelation”. It opens the person who makes that shift up to new possibilities and forces that person to dissect statements and search for understanding – not spiral to the crashing impact of, “They don’t.”
That shift really is crucial to peace and charity, imo – since it allows me to strive to make every interaction I have as valuable and educational and growth-producing as possible, even if, sometimes, the new question (“What do they mean by that?”) leads me to the conclusion,
“I get it – and I disagree with that meaning.”However, more often than not (and FAR more often than most people would think), it leads me to the conclusion, “I’d never thought of it quite like that. COOL!!”Well put Ray. In my more common terms, it may help keep my head from exploding.
or, “What ss said.” 😳 Very nice! Quote:But who are we to say what is true? As William James, that great chronicler of religious experience, put it: “Truth is what works.” On the face of it, that sounds absurd. But James is speaking of a different kind of truth. If spiritual practices work for us, if they make us better, happier people, than they are true.
True like a ham sandwich.
SilentStruggle, I really liked that article. Thanks for sharing it.
I especially liked these parts:
“They are intelligent, but theirs is an intelligence that extends beyond that of cold logic alone: an intuitive sense that I envy. And while it’s true that some of those I met sought absolute certainty from their faith, the vast majority live comfortably with doubt and uncertainty. They fit squarely into a category that one psychologist calls the “Questers,” those who see questions, not answers, as central to their religious experience…What do you believe? That’s our default question when it comes to matters of faith. Frankly, and with all due respect, I don’t care what you believe. What do you experience? What do you do? Those are the more important questions.”
There are many ways to be intelligent – spiritual and intuitive intelligence are especially influential.
I’ve heard that God may be in the void of desire… that feeling we all have like something’s missing… wondering who we really are… searching endlessly for truth.
“Actions speak louder than words”… not only to others, but also to our sub-conscious.
What we experience is more important than prophessed beliefs.
I’ve read that the book of life may be our bodies… physical and spiritual.
Some say that our bodies (& resulting health or illness) tells of our thoughts and feelings…
Of course, I think this is one of many parts of the puzzle, still, it’s significant.
Cadence wrote:Nice concept. Be nice if more LDS thought more that way instead of the one truth scenario. It seems whenever someone can not accept religion as is they nuance it to the point of acceptance in their mind. In essence they create a new religion based on their personal wants and desires. This is probably how all religions start, breaking from the establishment. Somewhere back in time there was the original spiritual leader of the first human tribe that came up with the concept of God. From there it has been an ongoing project to find him/her.
And Mormonism certainly has its schisms, as all religions do because people are trying to find that God that feels right to him/her. I think, Cadence, this is what brings me peace despite what I see/hear at church…that my “experience” can be different than others, despite what others claim or believe. It doesn’t all have to be the same, because it isn’t about finding the one true answer…it is about finding what works for me, and part of that is loving those who experience it differently…not tolerating them, but truly loving and respecting them while I continue to seek that continuing revelation Ray spoke of.The thoughts that I really liked in the article were the part about learning to live with doubt and uncertainty, the point about religion is about asking the right questions regardless of the answers, and also the analogy of the microwave and Shakespeare with religion and science (both are needed for different purposes).
Like Roy repeated, true like a ham sandwich.
:thumbup: But what do you see as the point of questions without answers? The possibility to consider multiple possibilities is a wonderful thing – as is understanding that most, if not all, answers merely give rise to more questions. Some questions require answers – at the very least, temporary ones; some questions don’t require answers but serve more to open doors to other questions.
Having said that, many people need answers – and I’m not about to disparage them for that need. In some things, I like (nearly) immutable answers. Each of us has to determine for ourselves what questions require answers for us and what questions don’t – and we have to fight the tendency to deny that right to others whose conclusions are different than ours.
SilentDawning wrote:But what do you see as the point of questions without answers?
Not necessarily questions “without” answers, but questions “regardless” of answers. I think there is a difference, and we can be open to many possibilities, and that can stretch us, I think.
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