- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
In his 1955 Sunday School manual called “Christ’s Ideals for Living,” Obert Tanner wrote the following in his chapter “Sincerity”: “The leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would offer this suggestion: Start where you are. What do you believe? Start with that and take it as far as you can down life’s highway. Another truth will meet you at nearly every bend in the road. God has never intended that an honest mind should be humiliated or made unwelcome in the Church by any other member because of honest inquiry. Above all, keep the virtues of integrity, sincerity, and genuineness. Nothing else can be right in a man’s life if he is not sincere.”
Just perfect. An admonishment to stay true AND reverence for the sacrament of doubt (in the same paragraph, no less).
More on this book in Book Reviews.
I LOVE this quote, Jordan! I’ve never even hear of Obert C Tanner. I’ll check out your book review and then, maybe, read it! Thanks for sharing. That reminds me SO much of Elder Wirthlin’s “Concern for the One” and the description of God’s great orchestra. Thank you for sharing it.
I might have to copy that and keep it with my scriptures! Thanks for sharing. Love the quote. Gotta add this to the essay. Don’t let me forget. Jordan wrote:God has never intended that an honest mind should be humiliated or made unwelcome in the Church by any other member because of honest inquiry.”
Why does it seem like raising certain questions at church is not openly welcomed in many cases? Is it the tone the query is raised that makes it uncomfortable in church? Is it that lessons get derailed and teachers don’t like it? Is it that people just don’t like “boat-rockers”?I can’t seem to put my finger on the cultural aspect, but it bothers me. Here’s what I mean and where I’m coming from with this:
A few weeks ago in church we had a parents meeting from the YW leaders on the up and coming events and expectations of the leaders with the Young Women. A great proactive meeting for the leaders to connect with parents. At one point, dress standards for an activity was explained. A recent convert, who was a mother of a recently baptized youth, raised her hand and asked why the dress standards are so “old fashioned” – that her daughter really had a hard time adjusting her wardrobe to “mormon standards” and actually wondered if the “old men” that lead the chuch are so out of touch with style and modern trends, that it was not realistic. It was a sincere question.
There was an immediate outbreak of laughter, kind of like other parents thought she was being sarcastic and funny…but I felt so sorry for her when I saw her whole body shrink in her chair. People then stopped laughing, realizing she wasn’t kidding and they didn’t intend to mock her, but then nothing was done to address the concern. The YW Pres was uncomfortable, and simply brushed it aside as, “Well, the church is led by revelation, and these are the standards that are best to help our children.” Clearly, the answer didn’t satisfy the new member, but I could tell she was not going to raise her hand again…she was being taught, “Don’t be silly, just go along with the crowd” and also “others know a lot more than you, so your questions are silly.”
Why is it in church that those questions are uncomfortable to handle? I see it in Gospel Doctrine also, and I have stopped participating, whereas I used to want to contribute. Why aren’t those events looked at as opportunities to help teach and clarify ideas…not brush them aside or make them embarrassing? I can’t put my finger on why it is our culture isn’t more open to that. Anyone have any ideas?
I really like the quote Jordan gave, but how does it get implemented? Is it realistic?
I found in the Gospel Doctrine class that it became a contest to see who knew the most and who could be the most impressive. I was caught in this too as I was one who also “knew the most,” and I had to keep my hand up to say my big important life altering thing that everyone could go home and worship ME about. I wasn’t the only one, I had some pretty good rivals. Honest questions are not asked because because they show that you are not up in the “know.” They would say that “those who are not up on their knowledge of Gospel Doctrine should go to the Gospel Essentials where the new members or the spiritually enept go. Go and fit into your part and come in here only when you can keep up and compete.”
I eventually got to a point when I had to just shut my mouth. I wasn’t impressing anyone and no one was changing their behavior because of what I thought was a grand idea. I found out that I didn’t really know more than they did and I was preaching to the choir.
I am sorry that we as the orthodox membership can be so heartless and mean. We look at the world in our sphere. In that sphere everyone is the same as us and we communicate a common language that isn’t harsh to each other but is harsh to those that we haven’t yet let in. We understand each other and forgive each other. Our noses are turned up to those that we haven’t let in because they have to earn their place in our sphere. Our sphere is comfortable to us and sometimes we see no need to come out or change anything within.
I am coming out of the sphere because I am learning to see that I can’t grow any more inside of the sphere. After all, a sphere contains only so much volume, and when that volume has been used up something gives or something stops growing.
I find it funny that I am part of a forum where the broken and damaged testimonies are trying hard to climb up, but yet I am trying to break down my own self and descend from my lofty perch, and to be let free and worship Christ in a more unique way independent if only a little bit from the church and its cultures.
borninit, good post borninit wrote:I find it funny that I am part of a forum where the broken and damaged testimonies are trying hard to climb up, but yet I am trying to break down my own self and descend from my lofty perch, and to be let free and worship Christ in a more unique way independent if only a little bit from the church and its cultures.
Yes, excellent.
I’ve felt this paradox, too. They strangely go together, breaking down our old selves and trying to build up something new and stronger.
borninit wrote:. . .
. . .
One of my big pet peeves is when certain people chose to tear down another religion to try to make our church look better. I really see no need for it and feel that if anything it only weakens the church when people attack other faiths and then complain about “Anti – Mormons”
. . .
. . .
[Moderator comment: I am so very sorry! The deletion of most of this post was a total accident. I meant to quote from the post but instead edited the original. I wish there was a way to bring back the original text – but I’m afraid it’s lost.
😳 All thumbs today! I feel horrible to have erased someone’s thoughts and work! So sorry! sorry! (Feel free to edit me out of this!)}]Quote:It seems like there are always 3 or 4 guys who always feel the need to say something. Sometimes it was a quote from the scriptures, which is fine. Other times these people would basically give their personal opinion on something but say in a strong argumentative style as if it were a true matter of fact.
That’s exactly why I stopped participating in lds.net.
Quote:That’s exactly why I stopped participating in lds.net.
Yeah I’ve been off and on with that site over the past 5+ years. I joined the site back when it used to be ldstalk.com
FYI. O.C. Tanner was early CES employee. Friends with many intellectuals like Lowell Bennion. He wrote many excellent church books and manuals. Unfortunately he lost his testimony somewhere along the way and like his friend Sterling McMurrin no longer believed in the church. His daughter became the Episcopal Bishop of Utah. It was a shame to loose a great intellect like Tanner from the institute and seminary program. Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
