October 2016 General Conference

[Anonymous]

Ann wrote:

Until a new generation of non-Primary-voice talkers steps up, I would do much better to just read transcripts, but they’re not out yet, as far as I can see.

That’s interesting that you should say that Ann. I generally refrain from criticizing speakers (or leaders in general) about such things to my much more believing wife. She sees it as attacking the person instead of the message (neither of which she likes me attacking anyway) and being “negative.” So, I have not of late said anything about women speakers talking as tough we are all Primary children, although not long ago my teenage son did mention it. Anyway, I thought these three sisters were much better than average at speaking like adults to adults but didn’t say anything – until my wife noted the same thing. She says this was the best women’s conference ever, partly because of that. (We don’t necessarily agree on that last point, but since I don’t usually watch the women’s session I really can’t say and just let it be.)

[Anonymous]

I hope it’s clear that I’m saying I am better off reading, but I have to allow that others are fine. The delivery really puts me off and prejudices me. (In this meeting I’m talking about the first two speakers.)

But just goes to show – different strokes.

I had the experience a couple conferences ago of almost tuning out when Sister Wixom spoke, but was glad I didn’t because I’d have missed probably the best talk of the whole conference.

[Anonymous]

Speaking of speaking styles…

I struggle to come up with an adequate onomatopoeia for this phenomenon but during the first session there were a few speakers (not naming names) that do a ‘tmeax’ noise as they open their mouths to start each new sentence. The sisters with misophonia must have been really feeling it, once you hear it that’s all you hear . I hate to even mention it, I probably do this subconsciously as well, that or far worse things without realizing. 😳

Maybe it was a hot mic, something the sound engineers could address? I wonder if primary voice is autotuned into the sound mix. :angel:

[Anonymous]

The first speaker said that the greatest form of charity is to withhold judgment. So here I am judging? I don’t want to beat it to death, but if anyone influential lurks here, just want them to know that it’s offputting to at least some of us.

[Anonymous]

nibbler wrote:

Speaking of speaking styles…

I struggle to come up with an adequate onomatopoeia for this phenomenon but during the first session there were a few speakers (not naming names) that do a ‘tmeax’ noise as they open their mouths to start each new sentence. The sisters with misophonia must have been really feeling it, once you hear it that’s all you hear . I hate to even mention it, I probably do this subconsciously as well, that or far worse things without realizing. 😳

Maybe it was a hot mic, something the sound engineers could address? I wonder if primary voice is autotuned into the sound mix. :angel:

I thought I was the only one that noticed things like that! I am not quite sure what “tmeax” is, but two had a “tick” and one was a gasp inward before speaking. I was quite the sound buff growing up (WAY too much into stereo’s – paid 2x times more for the sound system in my first car than I paid for the car itself). I have learned to keep my mouth shut and try not to focus so much on things such as this and listen to people themselves.

I do write it off as partially being nervous. I have been recorded before when giving a technical speach in front of a large group and I heard it when I watched it afterwards. but normally I don’t do it.

[Anonymous]

I actually prefer reading the talks, too, for a variety of reasons not the least of which is speaking style and things like ticks. I did notice, especially one of the sisters and I don’t recall which one, did the “tmeax” thing. TSM used to bug me to no end, actually. I disliked his talks not only because he always seemed to be telling pointless stories and at the end I’d wonder what his talk was about, but I couldn’t stand that sort of lilting drawl he’d do at the end of sentences. He hasn’t done that in awhile, and he doesn’t tell as many stories as he used to, which allows him to get more to the point of his talks. I am not at all ashamed to say I liked the two talks from last conference – but that was in no small part because of their length. They could all be like that and perhaps cut meeting times in half and I wouldn’t complain.

[Anonymous]

But what do you make of Sis. Oscarson’s comment? I don’t understand how that statement made it into a final draft. Again, it’s not a crime, but it makes me stop and say, Hmm, we aren’t on the same page.

[Anonymous]

Ann wrote:

But what do you make of Sis. Oscarson’s comment? I don’t understand how that statement made it into a final draft. Again, it’s not a crime, but it makes me stop and say, Hmm, we aren’t on the same page.

I did not like Sr. Oscarson’s talk. Nothing against mothers, my mom is one of the hardest working people I know and my wife is a great mom. I do think motherhood is noble and a great aspiration. My wife is also a nurse and currently the breadwinner. My daughter is 25, unmarried, a graduate of BYU and is in the third year of a doctoral program at another university (close to where Mom3 lives, actually). I couldn’t be prouder. She does want to have children someday, but not right now. My RM son at BYU has repeatedly said he can’t imagine having children while a student and that’s something he would have to discuss with a potential marriage partner. My goal as a father was never to raise baby producers. I do look forward to grandkids, but they come when they come and I’m not all that unhappy being an empty nester at the moment. I’m pretty happy that all of my children are kind and loving souls and smart to boot.

As for her statement about JS, since I don’t believe that Jesus organized a church anciently I certainly can’t believe he organized women in that church or in any other way. I think we teach a falsehood when we teach that the church was organized as it was organized in Jesus’s time. And, I think that the culture of the time would not have allowed Jesus to organize women or give them any extra rights – and I don’t see any evidence he did. I do believe Jesus treated women with love and respect.

I do think it’s interesting that the talks haven’t been published in text form yet. Maybe there’s some editing happening.

[Anonymous]

Sister Carole M. Stephens’ talk got me thinking. I decided to start another thread about something that was said in her talk so I wouldn’t take away from the more general focus of this thread.

http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7843” class=”bbcode_url”>http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7843

[Anonymous]

Ann wrote:

It’s hard for me to take seriously someone who suggests this.

Well, if there had been hairspray and MLMs in Christ’s day, there might have been something akin to RS.

[Anonymous]

I’m feeling really rotten about my posts in this thread. I can’t delete them, so they’ll just stand. Yes, I wish things were different – many things, nearly all things. But I need to phrase my thoughts differently. I’ll think on this.

[Anonymous]

The text of the talks is finally posted. Just something I noted while reading Pres. Uchtdorf’s talk: he quoted from the New International Version of the Bible 4 times. Only one direct Biblical quote was from the KJV.

[Anonymous]

I know this is crazy long, but Sis. Oscarson’s footnote refers to the “Daughters in My Kingdom” book about the history and purpose of R.S. I understand the big picture and highlighting Christ’s attention to and love for women. And, of course, it’s hard to get a read on exactly what NT women did in the church because there is so little said. But as for the idea that this present-day R.S. existed anciently, I guess that’s Joseph Smith being creative, or expansive, or whatever the best word is for some of his statements.

Quote:

Relief Society: A Restoration of an Ancient Pattern

Throughout His mortal ministry, the Savior showed special love and concern for women. Elder James E. Talmage of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles said, “The world’s greatest champion of woman and womanhood is Jesus the Christ.”

The Savior taught women in multitudes and as individuals, on the street and by the seashore, at the well and in their homes. He showed loving-kindness toward them and healed them and their family members. In many parables, He told stories of women engaged in ordinary activities. He demonstrated deep familiarity with women’s lives and drew timeless gospel lessons from their everyday experiences. He forgave them. He wept with them. He had compassion on them in their specific circumstances as daughters, wives, homemakers, mothers, and widows. He appreciated them and ennobled them.

Even in excruciating pain on the cross, the Savior expressed concern for His mother, who by then was very likely a widow in need of watchcare. And the first person to whom He appeared after His Resurrection was a woman.

“The cultivation of Christlike qualities is a demanding and relentless task—it is not for the seasonal worker or for those who will not stretch themselves, again and again.” – Spencer W. Kimball

Female Disciples in the New Testament

While little is known about a formal organization of women in the New Testament, evidence suggests that women were vital participants in the Savior’s ministry. The New Testament includes accounts of women, named and unnamed, who exercised faith in Jesus Christ, learned and lived His teachings, and testified of His ministry, miracles, and majesty. These women became exemplary disciples and important witnesses in the work of salvation.

Women journeyed with Jesus and His Twelve Apostles. They gave of their substance to assist in His ministry. After His death and Resurrection, women continued to be faithful disciples. They met and prayed together with the Apostles. They provided their homes as gathering places for Church members. They valiantly participated in the work of saving souls, temporally and spiritually.

Martha and her sister Mary are examples of female disciples in the New Testament. Luke 10 contains an account of Martha opening her home to Jesus. She served the Lord by taking care of His temporal needs, and Mary sat at the Master’s feet and absorbed His teachings.

In an age when women were generally expected to provide only temporal service, the Savior taught Martha and Mary that women could also participate spiritually in His work. He invited them to become His disciples and partake of salvation, “that good part” that would never be taken from them.

Mary and Martha became active participants in the Lord’s mortal ministry. Later in the New Testament, we read Martha’s strong testimony of the Savior’s divinity. In a conversation with Jesus, she said, “I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.”

Many other female disciples traveled with Jesus and the Twelve, learning from Him spiritually and serving Him temporally. Luke recorded:

“And it came to pass afterward, that he [Jesus] went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him,

“And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,

“And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod’s steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.”

It is likely that these women provided some economic support for Jesus and His Apostles, along with service such as cooking. In addition to receiving Jesus’s ministering—the glad tidings of His gospel and the blessings of His healing power—these women ministered to Him, imparting their substance and devotion.

The Apostle Paul wrote of women who, both in Church positions and of their own volition, served the Saints. His description of a righteous widow identified characteristics of many women in the early Church: “Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints’ feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.” Paul also wrote of the influence of wise, experienced older women. He counseled Titus to encourage older women to serve and teach young women about their eternal roles as wives and mothers, “that they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children.”

The book of Acts includes an account of a woman who embodied the virtues Paul described. Tabitha, who was also known as Dorcas, lived in Joppa, where she made clothes for…

“Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did.

“And it came to pass in those days, that she was sick, and died. …

“And forasmuch as [the city of] Lydda was nigh Joppa, and the disciples had heard that Peter was there, they sent unto him two men, desiring him that he would not delay to come to them.

“Then Peter arose and went with them. When he was come, … all the widows stood by him weeping, and shewing the coats and garments which Dorcas made, while she was with them.

“But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed; and turning him to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up.”

The New Testament mentions other devoted women. Priscilla and her husband, Aquila, risked their lives for the Apostles and provided their home for Church gatherings. Paul wrote, “Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.”

A woman named Mary “bestowed much labour” for the Apostles. A woman named Lydia was baptized along with her household and then ministered to those who had taught her.

A woman named Phebe apparently held an ecclesiastical position of service in her congregation. Paul said, “I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church … that ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many.” The kind of service rendered by Phebe and other great women of the New Testament continues today with members of the Relief Society—leaders, visiting teachers, mothers, and others—who act as succorers, or helpers, of many.

Female Disciples in the Latter Days

The women in the ancient Church were dignified and noble, needed and valued. They served others, increased in personal holiness, and participated in the great work of saving souls.

These patterns have been restored in the latter days through the organization of the Relief Society. The Prophet Joseph Smith declared, “The Church was never perfectly organized until the women were thus organized.” Sister Eliza R. Snow, the second Relief Society general president, reiterated this teaching. She said: “Although the name may be of modern date, the institution is of ancient origin. We were told by our martyred prophet that the same organization existed in the church anciently.”

Besides Joseph Smith, other latter-day prophets have testified that the organization of Relief Society is an inspired part of the Restoration, whereby women in the Church are called in ecclesiastical positions to serve one another and to bless the entire Church. President Joseph F. Smith, the sixth President of the Church, said, “This organization is divinely made, divinely authorized, divinely instituted, divinely ordained of God to minister for the salvation of the souls of women and of men.” To a group of Relief Society sisters, President Lorenzo Snow, the fifth President of the Church, said: “You have ever been found at the side of the Priesthood, ready to strengthen their hands and to do your part in helping to advance the interests of the kingdom of God; and as you have shared in these labors, so you will most certainly share in the triumph of the work and in the exaltation and glory which the Lord will give to His faithful children.”

As women participate in Relief Society, they serve as valiant disciples of Jesus Christ in the work of salvation. Like the women in the ancient Church, they work alongside men who hold the priesthood to increase faith and personal righteousness, strengthen families and homes, and seek out and help those in need. Sister Julie B. Beck, the fifteenth Relief Society general president, taught: “Through Relief Society we practice being disciples of Christ. We learn what He would have us learn, we do what He would have us do, and we become what He would have us become.”

[Anonymous]

From Uchtdorf’s talk:

Dieter F. Uchtdorf wrote:

…in our efforts to help our loved ones experience the voice of the Spirit and the vast, eternal, and profound beauty of the gospel of Jesus Christ, telling them to “listen harder” may not be the most helpful way.

Dieter F. Uchtdorf wrote:

Those who are impatient, uncommitted, or careless may find faith to be elusive.

Listening live that last quote jumped out and grabbed me. Personally I think there’s a difference between faith, belief, and feelings that would cause someone to leave the church but I also feel that there is a lot of overlap for many people.

Dieter F. Uchtdorf wrote:

One might ask, “If the gospel is so wonderful, why would anyone leave?” Sometimes we assume it is because they have been offended or lazy or sinful. Actually, it is not that simple.

You don’t feel you have faith? Perhaps you are too impatient, lazy, or sinful and find faith to be elusive. I also think it will be hard for people to distinguish between advice to listen harder and listen differently. They both seem to have “you aren’t doing it right” at its root.

Dieter F. Uchtdorf wrote:

Perhaps better advice—for anyone who wants to increase faith—is to listen differently. The Apostle Paul encourages us to seek the voice that speaks to our spirit, not just to our ears. He taught, “The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.” Or perhaps we should consider the words of Saint-Exupéry’s Little Prince, who said: “One sees clearly only with the heart. Anything essential is invisible to the eyes.”

I like D&C 8:2:

Doctrine and Covenants 8:2 wrote:

Yea, behold, I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart.

For many years I vacillated between the spiritual witness to my heart outstripping the spiritual witness to my mind and the spiritual witness to my mind outstripping the spiritual witness to my heart. Looking back I think I felt the most lasting comfort when the two were more in harmony with each other, when there was a balance. I don’t think we can be born into a state of equilibrium, I’m not even convinced that’s the ideal state, but I think it’s a process where I had to “work out [my] own salvation with fear and trembling.” Finding a balance didn’t come without effort.

Under a few of my many definitions of faith, I don’t view faith as something that I can conscientiously attempt to increase. It’s more like something that I can only see when I’m actively engaged in the work. In that sense, yes I suppose idleness does make faith elusive.

I’m just saying that it was a difficult talk for me because elements of the talk reminded me of my days spent trapped by scrupulosity. I do not feel the spirit, I must try harder, I still do not feel, I must not be trying hard enough, and so on. Like the carrot on a stick, spiritual contentment was something that was always out of reach, regardless of how much effort I put in… because you can always be doing more. Eventually the donkey stopped chasing the carrot, becoming idle in the process, and found an “inner carrot.” The trick was getting back up to pull the cart again.

[Anonymous]

I understand and agree with what you’re saying Nibbler. My own thoughts are very similar. The reason “pray more, read scriptures more” doesn’t work for me is because I have spent countless hours (literally) over decades doing so – and I still feel the same. Perhaps I am doing it wrong, but nobody seems to be able to tell me what it is that isn’t right. Listen differently? What the hell does that mean? How was the grandma in the story able to listen any differently and hear the birds?

Uchtdorf’s line about “impatient, uncommitted or careless” did jump at me. I wouldn’t characterize myself as uncommitted or careless at the moment, but I have sometimes been in those situations. I am indeed almost always impatient, though.

The conclusion of this talk is what bugs me sometimes. The “everything is going to be alright in the end” mentality is great – and sometimes I am able to buy into it. But the question I asked a few months ago on this forum still applies – what if I need more than peace? The idea that in the end every injustice will be fixed is fine – but I need food today. Then, I sit in F&TM and hear the stories about others who needed food and lo meets behold and by some miracle they have food.

On the surface this talk is about faith, but it’s really an “endure to the end” talk IMO. I understand why some don’t “endure” and choose to take other actions – and that comes from unrewarded faith or belief in the here and now.

(Note: I use needing food only as an example. I am not starving or anywhere near starving – at least physically.)

[Author]

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