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LOL, cwald, you just liked the first five words… Quote:I actually agree with you
You’re just like my husband.
mercyngrace wrote:LOL, cwald, you just liked the first five words…
Quote:I actually agree with you
You’re just like my husband.
Yeah, you might be on to something there.
🙂 Seasons changed. Emotions vascilated. Pissiness increased. cwald wrote:DA – you make me laugh…Is it just me, or
do we all seem to be little bit more pissy than normal the last week or two?Old-Timer wrote:Seasons changed. Emotions vascilated. Pissiness increased.
I think I’ve been feeling really cynical and angry about the Church ever since I listened to some of the conference talks and then some of the recent threads about chastity, large numbers of single adults becoming inactive, and renewed emphasis on the temple really touched a nerve because it feels like the Church wants to make a big deal out of the fact that I wasn’t married in the temple and it really irritates me. If nothing else, at least I feel better now that I’ve filed my complaints and said what I wanted to say about some of these unreasonably harsh and manipulative doctrines.
Not to derail the existing train of discussion, but I want to go back to M&G’s pivotal statement that the way you measure organizational success isn’t always in harmony with how we view the gospel. However, God is a master of reconciliation. His ability to reconcile the conflicting demands of justice and mercy is a case in point. So, why do we not see such reconciliation between the expectations raised by claims to divine commission and a perfect gospel, and the conflict demands of organizational success measurements? I think this is the heart of what I expected when I joined this organization, that somehow, it would be so much different and better. And with God at the helm ultimately, capable of conducting its affairs in a way that is far above what we see in the rest of the world.
SilentDawning wrote:Not to derail the existing train of discussion, but I want to go back to M&G’s pivotal statement that the way you measure organizational success isn’t always in harmony with how we view the gospel.
However, God is a master of reconciliation. His ability to reconcile the conflicting demands of justice and mercy is a case in point. So, why do we not see such reconciliation between the expectations raised by claims to divine commission and a perfect gospel, and the conflict demands of organizational success measurements? I think this is the heart of what I expected when I joined this organization, that somehow, it would be so much different and better.
And with God at the helm ultimately, capable of conducting its affairs in a way that is far above what we see in the rest of the world. Because the church is true and perfect, but the people aren’t.
:shh: I don’t think anyone has heard that one before!SilentDawning wrote::shh: I don’t think anyone has heard that one before!Yeah, it gets old doesn’t it.
SilentDawning wrote:Not to derail the existing train of discussion, but I want to go back to M&G’s pivotal statement that the way you measure organizational success isn’t always in harmony with how we view the gospel.
If
Godreconciled the differences between the ideal and the fallen reality, how would wemature spiritually? If God HAD NOT reconciled justice and mercy, then how would we be saved eventually? SilentDawning wrote:If God HAD NOT reconciled justice and mercy, then how would we be saved eventually?
God doesn’t reconcile justice and mercy.
Christ claims the rights of mercy (Morroni 7) which overpowers justice (Alma 34) as we are merciful to each other (Matthew 5).
Justice isn’t robbed. It’s abdicated by those who opt to lay down their stones, recognizing their own need for mercy.
In the presence of a sinless advocate (D&C 45) who suffered a profound unjustice but refused to claim His right to recompense (Philippians 2), we are speechless to level a charge against our offenders (Luke 7).
My point is that God found a way of making these opposing forces work together for good….I would like to see how the reconciliation happens between the temporal vagaries and the divine claims of His Church… It obviously doesn’t — there has been no reconciliation there.
SilentDawning wrote:My point is that God found a way of making these opposing forces work together for good….I would like to see how the reconciliation happens between the temporal vagaries and the divine claims of His Church…
It obviously doesn’t — there has been no reconciliation there.
I think that God teaches us how to reconcile by example and then we have to do the hard work of becoming people who are capable of reconciliation. The way I see the gospel is that it’s all about
becoming. The idea that God should hand us a perfect church is comparable to asking why we need salvation in the first place, why can’t God just save us without respect to commandments, repentance, or atonement?
It’s the process that matters. We have to build a kingdom one brick at a time. Otherwise, it really won’t be our kingdom and we won’t be kings and queens worthy of inheriting it.
PS I probably sound like a broken record
Well, then taking that approach, it means that the only way to reconcile the extremely temporal behavior of the Church with its claim to a divine commission is personal sacrifice then, correct? SilentDawning wrote:Well, then taking that approach, it means that the only way to reconcile the extremely temporal behavior of the Church with its claim to a divine commission is personal sacrifice then, correct?
Just to make sure I’m understanding correctly, to what kind of personal sacrifice are you referring, SD?
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