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I listened to one of the “Why I Stay” podcasts, and a couple speakers indicated their parents “taught them to question” as they grew up in the Church. What is your stance on this — should you teach your children to question doctrines or established cultural values? Or do you TBM the whole thing in hopes a foundation will be established? And if you have taught your children to question, what was the impact on their commitment to the Church, and their clean living, and spirituality, if any as they got older?
We instilled a deep comfort level with questioning in our kids. Wow … talk about turning them into little monsters! They now argue with my wife and I about everything, and telling us how things really should be sometimes. It’s funny because I can see them turning out way more conservative than we are in a lot of ways, and really having their crap together more than we do. It makes me proud! (even if frustrated at times). If they can argue with me, and make great points, and think things differently, they’re going to be just fine in life. That makes me happy.
My kids are younger than Brian’s but yes, I think it’s healthy and even gospel-centered to teach exploration of ideas. Joseph Smith was asking questions before the first vision. Spencer Kimball was asking questions before the 1978 revelation on the priesthood. In fact, basically every section of the D&C came as a result of asking a question. If revelation comes mostly to answer questions, I think we should be asking as many questions as we can come up with. I don’t know where the modern idea of “follow don’t question” came from, but I don’t believe its doctrinal, and I know many members that don’t agree with it.
Brian — I remember you saying something about your kids not being really active or something in another thread — so, although they are very questioning about life in general, what impact has it had on their activity in the Church? My memory is fuzzy but this is the lingering (and perhaps erroneous) impression I developed. And it may be wrong, so I thought I’d ask. I really want to instill an ability to question in my children. I think that is slowly happening. The consequences of that are infinite I think and so I must be ready to accept their choices and beliefs. It is hard to undo nearly 40 years of conditioning but I’m working on it. I hope that I will continue to show love to them as they figure out this life for themselves. I just don’t want to see them suffer, which is an impossibility isn’t it? That will be the hardest part. CG
If you encourage them to question the fundamentals, say, as teenagers, will that not only hasten inactivity and abandonment of religious ideals? Or should they be given the stability of firm belief in the gospel as espoused by Mormonism, with their parents just “being there” when they encounter questions later in their lives? For me and my kids, the most important thing isn’t the questioning; it’s the attitude behind the questioning. I question to learn, and I try to teach my children to question to learn. I draw a distinction between “doubt” and “uncertainty” specifically because I want my children to embrace the idea that it’s ok to be uncertain – but I don’t want them to have a “doubting spirit”. Iow, I want them to be open to changes in their understanding – of everything – as they learn more, but I don’t want their primary orientation to be one of disbelief. I want them to be willing to explore anything and come to believe whatever makes sense to them – but that is different than not being willing to explore some things because their primary orientation is negative and unbelieving.
I’m not sure if that makes sense, but I think the biggest dis-service parents do for their kids in this regard (based on my years of observing parents who preach questioning and “debate” to their kids) is that they do so in a way that encourages their kids to disbelieve – rather than encouraging them to believe.
It’s a fine distinction, I know – but it’s a very important distinction for me.
Old-Timer wrote:For me and my kids, the most important thing isn’t the questioning; it’s the attitude behind the questioning. I question to learn, and I try to teach my children to question to learn.
I draw a distinction between “doubt” and “uncertainty” specifically because I want my children to embrace the idea that it’s ok to be uncertain – but I don’t want them to have a “doubting spirit”. Iow, I want them to be open to changes in their understanding – of everything – as they learn more, but I don’t want their primary orientation to be one of disbelief. I want them to be willing to explore anything and come to believe whatever makes sense to them – but that is different than not being willing to explore some things because their primary orientation is negative and unbelieving.
I’m not sure if that makes sense, but I think the biggest dis-service parents do for their kids in this regard (based on my years of observing parents who preach questioning and “debate” to their kids) is that they do so in a way that encourages their kids to disbelieve – rather than encouraging them to believe.
It’s a fine distinction, I know – but it’s a very important distinction for me.
So, you encourage them to question in faith (is that correct)? With a view to discovering why it’s true, rather than if it’s true?
SilentDawning wrote:Brian — I remember you saying something about your kids not being really active or something in another thread — so, although they are very questioning about life in general, what impact has it had on their activity in the Church?
Yeah. You remember it right. I have other significant complicating factors beyond just this one issue, so I couldn’t isolate “questioning” in my family experience. I have an agreement that I can’t force my kids to go to Church, my wife can’t forbid them to go either. You can guess how that turned out. But on some level, I am comfortable with the kids making the decision. If the Church doesn’t attract them, or provide some value to them, then it needs to be a better church or it will lose them.
Maybe people shouldn’t listen to me if they want their kids to grow up super-active in the Church *shrug*. But I’m not sure teaching them to obey without question is going to do that in the long run either. Look how many people end up here after that doesn’t work so hot.
Quote:With a view to discovering why it’s true, rather than if it’s true?
Not really. I try to teach them to question with the intent of discovering what they can believe (what they can accept as “true” at that time), not with the intent of discovering what they can’t believe. It’s the focus that matters most – the “direction of the objective”, if you will.
Let me use a specific example:
I know someone who was raised to question everything – but it was done in a spirit of debate in which arguing and trying to convince others was the focus. This friend became very good at debating things – seeing both sides of something and making a particular argument well enough to win. He became a lawyer and was very successful – but, in the meantime, he lost his ability to really believe anything in particular. Whichever position could be argued most effectively was the position that was “right” or “true” for him. Hence, he ended up with an orientation geared toward justification, which led to all kinds of destructive beahvior, divorce and other complications in his current life. Right now, he can’t shut down his “justification orientation” – and he does whatever he wants to do, since, subconsciously at best or automatically at worst, he can justify whatever he chooses to do in some way. He also can argue about it until anyone who questions him gives up and walks away, further re-inforcing in his own mind that he hasn’t done anything wrong.
His problem, as I see it, isn’t that he started out with a disbelieving, justifying orientation (although that might be correct); rather, it’s that he was tuaght that orientation and it was re-inforced throughout his childhood in the name of objectivity and rationality and open-mindedness. It wasn’t a questioning orientation; it was something much more hard to quantify and name – perhaps a “win-at-all-costs” or “pride” or “purely intellectual” orientation.
I ran into a lawyer you described the same thing. He said he eventually realized he was good at winning arguments, but not settling differences. I’m not sure how to guide my kids into questioning so they can decide what to believe; I’m afraid I might just encourage doubt when the Church is concerned.
When it comes to looking at life problems through critical thinking — I’m totally there. As Robert Ennis, the guru of critical thinking said “critical thinking is a process for deciding what to believe or do”. I encourage that in non-Church matters. But matters of faith are so fragile, I don’t want to upset the apple cart until my kids have spiritual experiences on which to lean.
I think some review of Fowler’s stages of faith might be helpful here. I know for my kids (oldest is 5) they are not ready for anything of that nature. There will come a time when they have disagreements etc. in matters of religion probably during the teenage years. I hope to be there for them and to offer alternative viewpoints that are no less positive or tenable in the LDS church. If I do a good job teaching love, service, compasion, responsibility, etc. the questioning part isn’t all that important. I wouldn’t mind if my kids were TBM’s all their life as long as they are happy.
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