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This is The One True Church on the Earth , you hear it all the time. What does that even mean? I believe I’m starting to let it go! Do I need that mindset? Don’t mean to be too personal but DH believes I need it – Or that really there is no point … in staying! .. That if I drop that, that I must continue my search for “Absolute Truth” elsewhere.
I believe it has a unique pattern that can bring individuals unto Christ – But not all individuals. Who knows maybe certain things are Most correct .. But not everything …
It brings out an Ugly Us vs. The World attitude! It is Ugly! I don’t like it all.
What can I do when I hear this? Covering my ears and rolling my eyes is rude.
LaLaLove wrote:Don’t mean to be too personal but DH believes I need it – Or that really there is no point … in staying! .. That if I drop that, that I must continue my search for “Absolute Truth” elsewhere.
Nah, you don’t. You don’t have to do anything you don’t want to do. You don’t have to claim a belief in an “Absolute Truth” (I don’t). You don’t have to choose a religion, or be a religious person if you don’t want to. Being religious and being spiritual are two very different things I think. And there is definitely a point in staying (at least for me) as long as it works for you. I stay because the church is my utility, my tool, to help me serve others, continue to be a heretic (which I believe is healthy, and admittedly like), and learn to love people I don’t see eye to eye with.LaLaLove wrote:What can I do when I hear this? Covering my ears and rolling my eyes is rude.
In one ear and out the other😆 . No, in all seriousness, you just accept their opinion for what it is, an opinion. Try to separate an individual from their points of view. I have some unique experience in this regard due to my childhood, and the problems my mom had/has. I have learned to apply these same ideas to the church, and people within. I view people as special reifications of God, even if I vociferously oppose their opinions. You will never agree with everyone on everything, so, just like the church, you learn to love the things you can accept and agree with, and just ignore (read: compassionately understand, but reject) the things you don’t.Oh, and I agree with your sentiments about the “Ugly Us vs. The world attitude” and whatnot. Good luck and keep us posted.
Do you believe there is a religious institution out there that holds all the absolute truth? If so, that might be a worthy pursuit for you. However, my journey has led me to the conclusion that no institution holds all truth-or absolute truth. There is light and truth all around us!
Nope, you don’t have to believe in “The One True Church.” That isn’t a requisite for staying LDS.
If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report, or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
No where in those beliefs is the notion that it is all contained in the LDS Church! I believe these things can be found in many places. As a matter of fact, I am (slowly) reading things like gnostic gospels that were found in 1945 in Egypt. I can’t help but think that Joseph Smith would have been
all overthem. I both believe that statement and don’t believe it. I believe it in the sense Valoel has mentioned on another thread about this general topic – that it points me like a compass in what I believe to be a true direction I haven’t found anywhere else within Christianity; I don’t believe it in the sense that many members interpret it – that it is totally true, contains no falseness and other churches are bad. Fwiw, I don’t think any of our scriptures or modern Prophets have believed and taught that second definition. I wrote a parsing of D&C 1:30 on Mormon Matters a while ago. If you are interested, the url is:
Common Scriptures in Review: The Only True and Living Church (
http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/12/common-scriptures-in-review-the-weapons-of-their-rebellion/ @LaLaLove – your DH is talking about “authority.” That is a key reason for many to stay in the church, but it’s not what everyone is interested in. I did a post on Mormon Matters about 10 days ago with a Kiersey Temperament quiz to determine what psychological “types” are frequenting the bloggernacle. My theory was that many who are disaffected or feel disenfranchised at church are in fact disenfranchised by the organization to some extent. IOW, the church, at least a lot of it, is geared towards a specific type of person and really does a great job meeting their needs. But I also feel that it CAN meet the needs of more than it often does. Here’s a link to the post: http://mormonmatters.org/2009/05/23/bloggernacle-personality-survey/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://mormonmatters.org/2009/05/23/bloggernacle-personality-survey/ A question I didn’t address in the post that might be helpful is “what do these different types of people WANT to get from their church?” or “what is theologically important to them?”
SJ– 55% of the population– They want to do what is “right” and to be in a church with authority or “the one true church.” Authority is most important to them. That’s why Mormonism works for them. What doesn’t work for them: when the conversation strays from the “party line,” when people criticize leaders or church practices or authority. Best church aspect: Talks telling them exactly what they are supposed to do, talks about priesthood authority, talks about how the world is going to hell in a handbasket. SP– 35% of the population (although probably most do not attend any church regularly)– They want to do what is fun and entertaining. Church should provide variety and excitement. You can see how they are probably left pretty cold by LDS services, although the variety of callings and working with the youth is probably their niche. Ever notice how those who work with the youth are often also the less actives? Coincidence? I think not! Also, there is a not so merry war betwixt these people and the SJs. SJs like to call them rule-breakers and flakes, both of which are somewhat true. SPs like to call SJs “corporate stiffs” and joyless Pharisees, both of which are somewhat true. Mormonism works for them when it’s fun. Most hated church aspect: Talks about procedural stuff like wearing white shirts, anything boring and predictable. Best church aspect: athletics, charismatic or interesting talks or leaders. NF– 10% of the population– They want to do what is good for people in accordance with their personal values. They want to make a difference.Mormonism works for them when it aligns with their values and they feel they can make a difference. Most hated church aspect: anything that seems cold or unfeeling or marginalizes people (such as Prop 8 stance). Most loved church aspect: Talks about love and compassion, humanitarian aid. NT– 5% of the population– They want to understand the mysteries of the universeand spend their lives creating theories about why things are the way they are. Mormonism works for them when we spend time questioning and exploring the “tenets” in gospel doctrine. It’s a turn-off when intellectualism is stifled (not necessarily when it’s maligned because people who malign intellectualism are already too stupid to care about). Most hated church aspect: “When the leaders speak, the thinking is done.” Most loved church stuff: acceptance and integration of science into religion, anything that provides new and interesting theories on life, nature, and humanity. As an NT, I find this stuff interesting as a way to understand what makes the church work or not work for people. Different strokes for different folks, after all. The world is diverse.
LaLaLove wrote:.. That if I drop that, that I must continue my search for “Absolute Truth” elsewhere.
What about the idea that all truth we experience in life is human truth? If we are not perfect beings how can we know anything perfectly?
When I hear comments alluding to “Absolute Truth” I try to calmly think to myself “stage 3, it’s okay — stage 3”
I’m probably sounding like a broken record but I divide things up:
1) Physical truths can be verified through physical experiments – reliably.
2) Personal truths are subjective and emotional/spiritual. These things you can’t prove or verify physically, but in a way that makes them even more meaningful and beautiful.
My thoughts anyway. I also don’t like the “Us vs. World”, I think the gospel of Jesus is designed to unite the world, not divide it.
Orson wrote:
My thoughts anyway. I also don’t like the “Us vs. World”, I think the gospel of Jesus is designed to unite the world, not divide it.Yes, yes, YES!
I remember in the allegory of the olive trees (most things about the church are symbolic and allegorical, not absolute truths as many TBMs like to believe, IMO): the master setup the vineyard, and weeds and wild trees slowly creep in and mess things up. God allows that to happen and go on for a time.
Then He will get involved and set things right.
The church may have serious flaws, but the source of it could still be God, regardless of the condition it is now in.
I totally accept that truth can be found in other religions, as my friends from other churches are a great inspiration to me, along with my bishop and several people in the LDS church are who are good people. It is not the “only” source of truth, but if God does want to get involved with the world, I think He will choose to go through His church he setup. But that doesn’t mean He does that every day, or every year, or every decade. I choose to find good whereever I can find it, and love all people no matter what religion. And I keep reading my scriptures and attending church because I like it.
That is my take on it.
hawkgrrrl wrote:@LaLaLove – your DH is talking about “authority.” That is a key reason for many to stay in the church, but it’s not what everyone is interested in. I did a post on Mormon Matters about 10 days ago with a Kiersey Temperament quiz to determine what psychological “types” are frequenting the bloggernacle. My theory was that many who are disaffected or feel disenfranchised at church are in fact disenfranchised by the organization to some extent. IOW, the church, at least a lot of it, is geared towards a specific type of person and really does a great job meeting their needs. But I also feel that it CAN meet the needs of more than it often does. Here’s a link to the post:
http://mormonmatters.org/2009/05/23/bloggernacle-personality-survey/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://mormonmatters.org/2009/05/23/bloggernacle-personality-survey/ A question I didn’t address in the post that might be helpful is “what do these different types of people WANT to get from their church?” or “what is theologically important to them?”
SJ– 55% of the population– They want to do what is “right” and to be in a church with authority or “the one true church.” Authority is most important to them. That’s why Mormonism works for them. What doesn’t work for them: when the conversation strays from the “party line,” when people criticize leaders or church practices or authority. Best church aspect: Talks telling them exactly what they are supposed to do, talks about priesthood authority, talks about how the world is going to hell in a handbasket. SP– 35% of the population (although probably most do not attend any church regularly)– They want to do what is fun and entertaining. Church should provide variety and excitement. You can see how they are probably left pretty cold by LDS services, although the variety of callings and working with the youth is probably their niche. Ever notice how those who work with the youth are often also the less actives? Coincidence? I think not! Also, there is a not so merry war betwixt these people and the SJs. SJs like to call them rule-breakers and flakes, both of which are somewhat true. SPs like to call SJs “corporate stiffs” and joyless Pharisees, both of which are somewhat true. Mormonism works for them when it’s fun. Most hated church aspect: Talks about procedural stuff like wearing white shirts, anything boring and predictable. Best church aspect: athletics, charismatic or interesting talks or leaders. NF– 10% of the population– They want to do what is good for people in accordance with their personal values. They want to make a difference.Mormonism works for them when it aligns with their values and they feel they can make a difference. Most hated church aspect: anything that seems cold or unfeeling or marginalizes people (such as Prop 8 stance). Most loved church aspect: Talks about love and compassion, humanitarian aid. NT– 5% of the population– They want to understand the mysteries of the universeand spend their lives creating theories about why things are the way they are. Mormonism works for them when we spend time questioning and exploring the “tenets” in gospel doctrine. It’s a turn-off when intellectualism is stifled (not necessarily when it’s maligned because people who malign intellectualism are already too stupid to care about). Most hated church aspect: “When the leaders speak, the thinking is done.” Most loved church stuff: acceptance and integration of science into religion, anything that provides new and interesting theories on life, nature, and humanity. As an NT, I find this stuff interesting as a way to understand what makes the church work or not work for people. Different strokes for different folks, after all. The world is diverse.
Well that just about explains some things DH absolutely leans on SJ … I believe I took a test like this ( maybe ) and feel into NT – AN Inventor. ( If that is correct ) I guess I lean towards NF also.just me wrote:Do you believe there is a religious institution out there that holds all the absolute truth? If so, that might be a worthy pursuit for you.
However, my journey has led me to the conclusion that no institution holds all truth-or absolute truth. There is light and truth all around us!
Nope, you don’t have to believe in “The One True Church.” That isn’t a requisite for staying LDS.
If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report, or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
No where in those beliefs is the notion that it is all contained in the LDS Church! I believe these things can be found in many places. As a matter of fact, I am (slowly) reading things like gnostic gospels that were found in 1945 in Egypt. I can’t help but think that Joseph Smith would have been
all overthem.
To answer your question .. No, not really anymore. The answer isn’t looking for the “Perfect” true church .. B/C I would just find major problems (IMO) with the next one too! Learning, reading, pondering about other religions and taking what I like/what works and leaving the rest – Well that works for meOld-Timer wrote:I both believe that statement and don’t believe it. I believe it in the sense Valoel has mentioned on another thread about this general topic – that it points me like a compass in what I believe to be a true direction I haven’t found anywhere else within Christianity; I don’t believe it in the sense that many members interpret it – that it is totally true, contains no falseness and other churches are bad. Fwiw, I don’t think any of our scriptures or modern Prophets have believed and taught that second definition.
I wrote a parsing of D&C 1:30 on Mormon Matters a while ago. If you are interested, the url is:
Common Scriptures in Review: The Only True and Living Church (
http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/12/common-scriptures-in-review-the-weapons-of-their-rebellion/
I agree that it points me ( sometimes, obviusly ) in a true direction. I kind of think that maybe it does hold quite a few things “More” correctly than other religions. I can’t really put my finger on it but for example maybe the PH is correct – not completely but maybe we have the right general idea. ( Which could be 1 out of the 1000 steps that there might be! ) But then again .. Some other Church might have something better than us … I believe the truth is really everywhere – Not in the hands on one Organization run by God b/c when it comes down to it … it is run by men as well. I just feel narrowminded thinking it is The One and Only .. these days.@LLL – My DH is also SJ, although he’s pretty close to SP, which honestly helps me empathize – I get bored at church too sometimes. But he really doesn’t mind the white shirt talks, knows a billion little facts about how the priesthood works and administrative stuff (stuff I couldn’t care less about). IIRC, Inventor type is INTP. My type wavers between ENTJ and ENTP, so we’re pretty close. So, as an NT, stuff I really love: parables (I am always speaking in analogies), the idea of eternal progression and becoming like god over time, enlightenment, and I do feel that I get involved in more good works through the church.
Is there a behavioral dictionary that has all the types and abbeviations? I remember taking a test once, I wonder if I’ll remember what type I am by looking at them and their definitions.
I remember taking a colors test, and I was mostly blue (emotional), with second strong characterisic of yellow (analytical).
The post I linked to gives an abbreviated (less reliable) version of the MBTI instrument. On-line versions of the test are usually bootlegged and often get taken down sooner or later. The actual instrument costs $55 to have administered by someone trained on the MBTI (which I am). Here’s a link to a site with descriptions of the 16 types: http://www.personalitypage.com/high-level.htmlhttp://www.personalitypage.com/high-level.html” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.personalitypage.com/four-temps.htmlhttp://www.personalitypage.com/four-temps.html” class=”bbcode_url”> I think I would like to compare the Church to WalMart. Lets say to make it simple Walmart has everything you good ever need in their store. ( Almost
THEN AGAIN sometimes you don’t want to go through ALL the trouble of parking … Tons of people .. long lines … And decide to just brake it down into seperate trips.
The all true line … just doesnt jive with me now, but I can see why people think that way ( Well not really, but I try )
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