- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
3 years ago, several changes of circumstance and new opportunities lead me to evaluate what motivates me and consider what I believe. 2 years ago I started the process of working in a new part of the world that opened my eyes to the wonder and diversity of the great human family.
1 year ago I started participating in online LDS communities as a way of articulating my perspectives.
I wanted to write to say thank you. It has been exactly 1 year since I joined stayLDS.
I count this as one of my favourite communities. My favourite by far in the ‘bloggernacle.’ Despite never meeting you in person I count many of you among my dearest friends. If ever I’m over in the USA I would love to meet you.
It seems appropriate to mark my anniversary with a ‘where I’m at.’ This still is not a final conclusion. I think my perspective means that I might never reach one.
- – I retain a belief that we are not alone, that the earth was created for us by a greater power. I call him God or Heavenly Father, but I respect those of other faiths who call the creator by many other names.
– I believe “I was, I am, I will be.” The eternal nature of who I am is, for me, the most important message Joseph Smith taught. With a belief that I am an eternal traveler I see earth as an important stage in my journey.
– I believe that the purpose of our turn on earth is to learn how to become better people. I believe the essential measure of progress and goodness is the way we treat each other. To not only treat others the way I would want to be treated, but to learn and discover how to treat others the way they would want to be treated.
– I believe this life to be an elevation and not a descent or step backwards. I believe this is a life to improve us not test us to breaking, I believe in a loving God, a God who weeps with us while respecting our independence.
– I believe I am and will be personally accountable for the standards I adopt and set for myself. I believe this will be the case for each and every one of us. I believe we will firstly be accountable to ourselves. We will, and already do, recognise the times and ways we could have done better and need to do better in future.
– I believe in a God who offers each of his children a personalised curriculum. I do not believe that one size fits all. As such I don’t believe Mormonism is right for everyone. I consider it to be an important part of my life, but am very comfortable with other people following different faiths and standards.
– I embrace the offer of Jesus Christ. I consider the atonement’s teaching of mercy, grace and forgiveness to be essential to my ability to progress and grow through being able to try, try and try again.
– I consider the example of Jesus and others through the ages or in scripture to be valuable behaviour models. I’m not certain of the historical reality of some of those people, but still find their lives and experiences inspiring and instructive.
– I recognise that many religious and philosophical perspectives are able to embrace the principle of continued improvement and doing good to others without Christianity. I believe that their perspectives are equally valid and lead them to the same end, which is what ultimately matters.
– I believe Joseph was sincere and not a fraud. I think the same of leaders since him. They have made plenty of mistakes but so have I. When the prophet speaks my thinking has only just started. I don’t agree with them all the time. I don’t think we’re supposed to. I appreciate them as sages and leaders but I am not bound by every thing they say. I do not believe it was ever intended to be that way.
– I do not believe that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint is the only true church and all others false. I believe the “church of the lamb” is best described as an attitude, a behaviour, a direction of travel. I believe in one path to godliness with many imperfect vehicles for travelling on the path. Mormonism is one of those vehicles. It’s not a perfect vehicle but it works for me.
– I consider the LDS ordinances and commandments to be important ways of making promises to do more good. I don’t think they are essential to the whole human family, but I recognise the benefit in offering them through temple work as an act of service and as a way of teaching their importance to me.
– I accept that some Mormons disagree with me. I consider their absolutist attitudes to be part of their personalised curriculum and the diversity of the great human family. If they need absolutes to persuade them to do good then I’m happy they have found them. I just hope they will accept and respect my participation without absolutes.
– I continue to associate with the LDS faith tradition because I appreciate the friendships I have, the community I’m a part of, many of the principles taught within it and, most especially, the big picture answers to who I am, why I’m here and where I’m going.
– I am, ultimately, a Universalist.
Thank you again for joining and supporting me on this journey.
I’m glad you have found the support you need here as I have. Like you, I consider some people here (including you) very dear friends. Thanks for helping me on my journey as well, we agree on many things. Perhaps soon I will be doing what you have just done. I really appreciate your post and update, Mackay11. I find so much of your current perspective in line with my own. Comforting and helps me find words and descriptions for my own thoughts. Thanks! Alex
You have no idea how deeply things like this touch my heart. Thank you for writing it and for joining us here. You have been of great service to others and have given as much as you have received, I’m sure. I am honored to call you friend.
Mackay – You have written and shared many wonderful words here, today’s though are some of the most empowering and encompassing I have read. Each of them reflect where I am presently, too. We are all blessed that you joined StayLDS, you bring healing light.
Thank you.
Hi, mackay – I identify with a lot of what you write. Thanks, especially, for your “useful quotes” thread. Happy StayLDS Birthday. 🙂 -like- Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
I really appreciate your useful quote thread and many of your other contributions. It’s also nice to have some other foreign perspectives too, lol
Regarding your points, I mostly agree. I’d say that truth can be found in most religions (see quote in sig), but also a lot of falsehood. Our church is true in many regards, but there are false churches and beliefs within it. The question is how we can be open without being wooly, true without being intolerant, Christian without being superior, moral without being puritanical, how we can accept our failings and dealing with them, how we can deal with others failings and forgive them etc. These are all harder in practise than theory.
Your contribution here has been critical to many of the positive ways I continue to stay LDS. Thank you for your balanced, honest and positive approach. A family of six travelers in the intermountain west are better off each day I have members here like you to lurk and read such insightful posts such as this one. Often it is the only form of daily bread I can depend on in my current growth. I think that you penned many of our feeling here at StayLDS and thank you for you thoughtful post. Sometimes I feel much less connected to the church than than I did a year ago when I first started posting but it is great to have people who can accept that and still call me brother. It’s been great having you on the site. Can’t believe it’s already a year! Thanks everyone. It’s great to be with you all 
I’ve been rereading the “what I believe/where I’m at” list.
I’ve posted anonymously for a while. I’m quite private about beliefs in real life. I’ve expressed a few reservations and concerns to a few people, but not to this level.
So here are my questions:
1) If I was going into a temple recommend interview next week and they had that printed out on the desk, do you think it would cause any issues? Would it limit eligibility? There are a couple of points I’m worried about being seen as too apostate (the non-essential nature of ordinances, not being the only true church and a couple of other points).
2) The Branch Mission Leader will be moving out of the branch in a month or two. Couple of the branch pres have joked about that in connection to me not having a calling (I’ve only recently moved back into the branch after a couple of years absence). It might not happen, but I can’t help but question whether I should accept if I was asked. Are those types of beliefs the kinds of beliefs that would be suitable for a branch mission leader? If I was called, should I share my list in full for honesty so they know what they are getting? And how would I deal with the very orthodox and sometimes one-dimensional message of the missionaries and Preach my Gospel?
mackay11 wrote:Thanks everyone. It’s great to be with you all
I’ve been rereading the “what I believe/where I’m at” list.
I’ve posted anonymously for a while. I’m quite private about beliefs in real life. I’ve expressed a few reservations and concerns to a few people, but not to this level.
So here are my questions:
1) If I was going into a temple recommend interview next week and they had that printed out on the desk, do you think it would cause any issues? Would it limit eligibility? There are a couple of points I’m worried about being seen as too apostate (the non-essential nature of ordinances, not being the only true church and a couple of other points).
2) The Branch Mission Leader will be moving out of the branch in a month or two. Couple of the branch pres have joked about that in connection to me not having a calling (I’ve only recently moved back into the branch after a couple of years absence). It might not happen, but I can’t help but question whether I should accept if I was asked. Are those types of beliefs the kinds of beliefs that would be suitable for a branch mission leader? If I was called, should I share my list in full for honesty so they know what they are getting? And how would I deal with the very orthodox and sometimes one-dimensional message of the missionaries and Preach my Gospel?
From my perspective I don’t see anything in there that would prevent you from having a TR. It’s up to you to answer the questions – honestly the bishop/BP has no special power to discern if you are telling the truth (that statement would get me banned on other forums). IMO, the whole recommend interview process is more for you to assess yourself than for anyone else to assess you. Looks to me as though you can answer the questions addressed in your statement in the affirmative. The interviewer is not supposed to probe further or ask questions outside those prescribed unless clarification is needed – answering with the appropriate yes or no leaves no need for clarification. (I do know that, sadly, some leaders disobey this counsel.)
As for accepting the calling, that’s really up to you. I see the mission leader as more of an administrative position which can be involved in teaching but doesn’t necessarily have to be. Even being present at a lesson does not mean that you have to express your beliefs – let the missionaries do the work. If you feel that the missionaries are deceptive (as some do) and that you must set the record straight, then this wouldn’t be the position for you.
NO problems with getting a temple recommend that I can see – but it would be kind of stupid to share a list like this with anyone whom you aren’t sure will understand. I don’t see a Mission Leader calling as out of the question for someone with your beliefs. In fact, I would rather have a leader who has or understands your beliefs than one who doesn’t and is a traditional hardliner. Of course, that’s my view, but whether or not you would accept a calling like that is up to you. As I’ve said multiple times here, if they call you, they get you – and if they can’t handle you, a release always is an option. NO guilt on your part if you are you in a calling.
DarkJedi wrote:From my perspective I don’t see anything in there that would prevent you from having a TR. It’s up to you to answer the questions – honestly the bishop/BP has no special power to discern if you are telling the truth (that statement would get me banned on other forums). IMO, the whole recommend interview process is more for you to assess yourself than for anyone else to assess you. Looks to me as though you can answer the questions addressed in your statement in the affirmative. The interviewer is not supposed to probe further or ask questions outside those prescribed unless clarification is needed – answering with the appropriate yes or no leaves no need for clarification. (I do know that, sadly, some leaders disobey this counsel.)
I personally have no issues answering the questions in the appropriate way. I don’t feel in being dishonest about any of them. I do have a testimony of the atonement, the restoration, prophets etc. It’s just that my perspective of what those things are might be considered a little unorthodox.
Thinking about it, I guess it wasn’t so a question of simply TR worthiness and more whether my views would be considered “apostate.” Denver Snuffer recently got ex’d for publishing his views (I know he’s got much more extreme perspectives to me). I just wonder if anything on that list could get me into trouble.
Quote:
As for accepting the calling, that’s really up to you. I see the mission leader as more of an administrative position which can be involved in teaching but doesn’t necessarily have to be. Even being present at a lesson does not mean that you have to express your beliefs – let the missionaries do the work. If you feel that the missionaries are deceptive (as some do) and that you must set the record straight, then this wouldn’t be the position for you.Thanks, good advice. The more I think about it the more I’d worry about doing it with integrity (or doing it while maintaining my integrity).
I like Ray’s advice, “they get you” – but the problem is that they probably don’t know they’d be getting “me,” they probably think they’d be getting “him,” the person I was 2 years ago when I was last in the branch. And that’s a very different person.
- – I retain a belief that we are not alone, that the earth was created for us by a greater power. I call him God or Heavenly Father, but I respect those of other faiths who call the creator by many other names.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.