- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
Rsbenson wrote:
You teach me. What’s my view? My view is that I can’t believe I typed the predceding paragraph.
I doubt I have much to teach you. I was hoping you had something to teach me. I like learning from others’ views.But I’ll share my view anyway…to quote Oaks again since I have that on my mind:
Quote:In contrast to the institutions of the world, which teach us to know something, the gospel of Jesus Christ challenges us to become something.
Therefore…
Quote:It’s Sunday and instead of going to Church, I decide to take a walk in the woods and view God’s creations and….feel the Spirit,…I guess. Anyway. Strait path or wide path?
Strait path. Feeling the spirit, especially in nature, helps me become more like Christ.
Quote:Luke 6: 1 And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands.
2 And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days?
…
9 Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?
…
12 And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.
[Admin note: By the way, dude…drop the condescending “heaven forbid” (and “hint, hint”) and keep trying the blogging thing with respect. You’ve been warned.]The only path back to god may very well be through Jesus but each of us is unique, we have to discover our own unique path that leads us to Jesus. nibbler wrote:The only path back to god may very well be through Jesus but each of us is unique, we have to discover our own unique path that leads us to Jesus.
I logged on to say pretty much the same thing. Please take this in the way it’s intended rsbenson: maybe it’s not your job to teach us, perhaps it’s our job to discover it on our own. That certainly doesn’t mean your input is unimportant or can’t help us discover – but it does mean that beating someone over the head with something is probably not going to help that person discover anything. Our soccer coach has a favorite thing he says to his players when something is not going right and there is a little discord: right message, wrong tone.
I am still interested on what people are thinking about when we say “one path”. I know the traditional teaching…follow Christ and be baptized. I did that at 8 years old….sooo…what does it mean? Follow Christ by keeping commandments, which is to stay active in church and live by the rules the church teaches. OK. I get that concept. If the church helps us to become more like Christ, and that is the path to return to live with God, OK, I get that concept. Maybe there is nothing else to discuss. That’s just it.
But…it seems to me that we can try to understand these principles deeper, and gain a more clear perspective on what it means in our lives.
I have found many people outside the church who are absolutely good people to the core, and do way more to serve and love others, and seek God in their lives. My one friend, a 33rd level Mason and Presbyterian, was a loving friend who went to lunch with me during some of my biggest trials…and just wanted to remind me that God is aware of my trials, and He loves me, and it will all work out if I keep my faith. His love and friendship inspired me. I have given him a copy of the Book of Mormon, which he read. He is on his own path, and highly spiritual.
I would panic if I thought he was on a dangerous path and was a lost soul. I would want to shake him to tell him he needed a mormon baptism, and needed it now to get on the right path to God. But, he is at peace with God, and seems to know more about the scriptures than I do. So while I have shared my beliefs with him, he is doing well on his own path to finding God. And because mormonism allows temple work in proxy for the dead, he will have a chance, in this life or the next to gain all the blessings he is worthy of as God sees, if that is really necessary.
How can I view him on a dangerous path? His path is working well for him. And mormonism seems to teach me I don’t need to worry, good people will have their opportunity for Glory and exaltation.
So is he not on the right path? Is he close to the path and will one day be taught it and can find the right path?
In short…a black and white “you’re on the path or you are in dangerous paths” and there is no middle ground doesn’t seem to fit reality to me. It’s too simplistic. Unless we’re using words differently.
The Lord taught the parable of the Good Samaritan. Which of the 3 who found the wounded was on the right path? I believe it was the one who did the right thing, and the others who held authority in the church were on a dangerous path. That is what Christ taught…our actions matter. What we are becoming matters.
The path is very abstract. Narrow is the way is a metaphor for us. I don’t believe it means in the church. It means something deeper. Many who are in the church and not grasping the concepts will find they are not on the path. Many not in the church but live like Christ are on the path.
So there are many ways to live, and be on that path.
Heber, I wholeheartedly agree with you that people who are members of other churches can be more loving, charitable, Christlike than most members of our church. I don’t see how any argument can be made that they are not on the right path or on a dangerous path. My concept of the whole one path thing has evolved over the past few weeks. I think we tend to imagine one common path that we’re all on – like a trail through the woods. Lehi’s vision, I think, illustrates that idea. But what if it’s not like that? What if the one path is the one path for each of us individually? That is, my one path is different than your one path if for no other reason than I started in a different place.
I know I’ve been stuck on Brightly Beams Our Father’s Mercy of late and beg your indulgence, but this is what has caused this evolution of thought. What if instead of envisioning a path through the woods we envision a path to the lighthouse from where we are at sea? In a case like that, all the ships or boats would be trying to reach the same place (the harbor) guided by the lighthouse. But is is also very possible that the lighthouse can be seen from at least 180 degrees or more. Two ships could be coming from opposite directions toward the lighthouse and still be on the one path that leads them there – but it is not the same path. Likewise, all of the other boats are also on a strait/straight/narrow path to the same place – even though their one correct path (or course) is different from every other boat’s path. Then, if the lighthouse is Christ, He is the Way and the Light (and probably the Truth). And in such a case, it makes no difference which church we belong to as long as we are going toward the lighthouse.
I realize this does not fully address keeping the commandments or things like baptism and TGOTHG – but then again, I’m not a one true church guy anymore and see those things as more symbolic of our own willingness or commitment to follow Christ.
Nice analogy Dark. And a lighthouse that is on a very small island is seen for 360 degrees (lets just stay in 2 dimensions or the math gets more complex 
And it there is 1 path for everyone, how do we explain that each of us have to overcome different obstacles? I think we each have our OWN path that was made for us. I struggle a bit with reconciling “narrow is the way” in that analogy. Maybe that we each have weaknesses that if we indulge in we are at risk of falling off our path.
LookingHard wrote:Nice analogy Dark. And a lighthouse that is on a very small island is seen for 360 degrees (lets just stay in 2 dimensions or the math gets more complex
And it there is 1 path for everyone, how do we explain that each of us have to overcome different obstacles? I think we each have our OWN path that was made for us. I struggle a bit with reconciling “narrow is the way” in that analogy. Maybe that we each have weaknesses that if we indulge in we are at risk of falling off our path.
If we don’t follow the path or we’re off course, we’re not going to reach the harbor. In that way it is narrow. I think that’s where the lower lights come in. It could well be that as we get closer the path allows for less leeway.
This same analogy can be made with aircraft approaching an airport.
I like both your responses, DJ and LH. Yes, the lighthouse works as an analogy, even if we know there is literally no lighthouse we’re discussing. We may be coming from different places in this world, and the Utah perspective may or may not be the perfect fit for us to model our lives from. If not, the principles should be right and we adapt it slightly to our situation, our own personal path, while trying to live the straight and narrow.
I frequently sense a tension between two sides on this topic. The one side is that there is one true church, one path, it is narrow and there is safety by holding on to the iron rod, flexibility is weakness and justification. Obedience is stalwart and honorable. This feels inconsistent to some who have experienced life and are not feeling safe on the path, and sometimes disappointed greatly, sometimes by others pushing and shoving on the path.
The other is personal, there is no one path, but we all can decide what is right for us. The Liahona directs our path, not a path that directs our feet, and it values personal experience to guide us, wherever those currents take us, we just need the right currents and let ourselves be led. Strict guidelines might work for the majority, but what about those on the fringes? This feels inconsistent to some who have experienced the safety of obedience to avoid pitfalls others (prophets and wise leaders) know generally happen to people who stray from a program (the one path) designed to lead to best results. From their perspective, to say there is not “one way” is to say nothing matters at all.
Perhaps the discussion on the lighthouse can be taken to the next level…to suggest that there are rocks under the water, or reefs, that we can’t see. While you can see the lighthouse from all directions…some paths are safe, some are perilous.
The Church is like a map, letting you know that wherever you are, once you see the lighthouse and know where you are…then you can look on the map to find where the rocks are, and which paths are safe to get to the destination and which are not. Those who trust that map that shows one way, they won’t want to risk checking for other paths, it is too risky. Better to change our course and get in line with the other boats following the safe passage rather than discover for ourselves where the rocks are, which, when we hit them…it is too late.
I guess before I share how i think through this…I’d rather hear how others respond. If the person sitting next to me in church believes literally in one path or one map, and that is safe for them, can I understand them and what they are saying from their point of view? Why do I feel different?
…my questions has been…Is it me, or the map, that’s creating my problems I’m having?
Perhaps your keel sits further down into the water than the keels of most other boats. Perhaps it sits down far enough to run aground when navigating the path that is delineated on the map. Perhaps your boat is wider than the average boat and is is too wide to thread the needle between two reefs as indicated by the map. Perhaps the map is out of date and sandbars have shifted locations. Let’s say you know the depth of the water at each stage of the path and you know the depth of your keel. Let’s say you know the distance between the two reefs along the path and you know the width of your boat. Let’s say it becomes clear to you that your boat cannot safely travel the path. In that scenario the risk of blazing your own trail is less than the risk of following the path.
The map may be accurate and it may be useful for most boats but your boat is unique.
Heber13 wrote:If the person sitting next to me in church believes literally in one path or one map, and that is safe for them, can I understand them and what they are saying from their point of view? Why do I feel different?
Their unique path may need to be “the one path” if only to give them the requisite amount of confidence to move forward. It’s still their path.
nibbler wrote:The map may be accurate and it may be useful for most boats but your boat is unique.
:clap: Who else has thoughts on this? especially how it relates to how others at church may respond or how they would react to your response?
The reaction? And maybe I need to be reeled back into the boat based on earlier comments… What is the one path? How would most define it?
1) Faith in Jesus Christ
2) Repentance
3) Baptism by immersion
4) Receive the gift of the holy ghost
5) Endure to the end
Maybe some additional allowances for other required ordinances. The argument is that
everyone mustgo through this process but it’s interesting that some of the things mentioned in that list don’t really get into too many specifics, especially that last one. Everyone has to endure to the end in their own unique way. Is enduring to the end the one path we are talking about or is it the other things on the list? Or is it something else entirely? This is of course all symbolic. I like the idea of a ship with a deeper keel, and the rocks and sandbars, etc. Also, a large container ship or tanker is bigger and harder to maneuver than a lobster boat. Some of us could be tankers while some of us are fishing boats. The course we take could be narrower or wider depending on our vessel. While the fishing boat may be able to go one way – narrow to it – the tanker must take another route which is relatively narrow to it. We may be using the same map (another possibility for a path or way) but have to use a slightly different route because of our uniqueness. I guess I reconcile the difference in the “hold to the rod” types the same way I reconcile all differences in belief at church – they just believe differently than I do, it doesn’t mean either of us are wrong. They may, for whatever reason, need to believe in a narrow, strict, unbending course, sort of like those that need to believe God helps them find their car keys. My faith, such as it is, is not dependent on God finding car keys for me.
I do agree with Nibbler – in the end the one way is Jesus the Christ, but I think that can be very broadly interpreted and includes generous grace and mercy.
Finally, we tend to be the ones that create problems for ourselves – almost universally.
Interesting timing, I have been thinking about this a lot over the last week. I like all the analogies, and I really believe that there are many paths. There is a fair amount of data which suggests that the religion people grew up in is the religion people stay with. If we truly believe in a loving Heavenly Father, and people are born into all kinds of different religions and belief systems, there must be many paths. Perhaps, as DJ suggests it will narrow at the end (I have no idea what will happen post-mortality), but what if we are wrong and the true religion is Buddhism (would we be willing to accept that)?
But on the topic of what Nibbler posted:
nibbler wrote:The reaction? And maybe I need to be reeled back into the boat based on earlier comments…
What is the one path? How would most define it?
1) Faith in Jesus Christ
2) Repentance
3) Baptism by immersion
4) Receive the gift of the holy ghost
5) Endure to the end
Maybe some additional allowances for other required ordinances. The argument is that
everyone mustgo through this process but it’s interesting that some of the things mentioned in that list don’t really get into too many specifics, especially that last one. Everyone has to endure to the end in their own unique way. Is enduring to the end the one path we are talking about or is it the other things on the list? Or is it something else entirely? I have thought about this list, and I have come to a different view of endure to the end. In the past I have interpreted this as obeying all the commandments; never drink, do everything perfect until the last day of mortality, etc…. But all those steps outlined above are about having faith, and I have to come to think of enduring to the end as having faith (hope) that you are doing what you can to progress and that your efforts will be rewarded in the next life (whatever that might be like).
IMHO, I don’t think it has anything to do with following any rules or creeds or going to church. I think it has to do with our faith and our belief enduring to the end.
Old-Timer wrote:
Thus, while I do NOT believe that all roads lead to Heaven, I DO believe that human life leads almost everyone to divine glory and that people can walk innumerable paths in this life and be exalted.I had a similar thought when I saw orson’s post. With the diversity of humanity, if there is only one path to God, it’s going to have to be wider than the Mississippi to touch everybody. The straight gate doesn’t work for me anymore.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.