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This came up in another thread, and I think it deserves it’s own. The question is are there members who have same sex attraction who are orthodox believers (AKA TBM)? In my ward I am aware of some, actually. Our seminary teacher, single, TR holder, spent her teen years in our ward, and by all appearances is a true believer. She is open about it but does not date or seek out others who are like her. I am aware of another man who is married with children but is not open about SSA, some of us just happen to know and I don’t share it with anyone. He is also fully active, TR holder, and holds a position of responsibility.
Likewise there are two young men who grew up in our ward, but neither live here now, who are not active at all and at least one holds some bitterness toward the church and his family (both families still live here). One of them lives in a same sex relationship and has for several years, and although they live in a state where gay marriage is legal they are not married.
So, from what I can see, yes, SSA members can be TBM – but it ain’t easy.
We can’t look into people’s heads… but no doubt SSA exists amongst orthodox members. I think it is probably easier for those who are bisexual. I have had my suspicions about some members, but can’t prove anything.
It’s not uncommon for women to have SSA in adolescence and grow out of it. Men are different that way. I think women’s magazines are often sub rosa homoerotic.
Stephen Fales appears to have been orthodox in his time.
I made a comment in the other thread about someone I know. The guy who I know is married to my wife’s cousin. He is not open about his SSA, and I actually found out about it by mistake. When I told my wife she was surprised but after thinking about it she felt it kind of made sense based on what she knew of him. He and his wife knew what they were doing when they got married, and they are both very orthodox Mormons. They have been married for 15 years and have three kids. I know it’s not easy for them. Presumably the person you’re talking about swings both ways. Although in modern society we often talk of love being sexual, I also believe it is possible to love someone without it being sexual.
SSA is odd. It can be a one-off thing for some people, or as in some cases an exclusive orientation.
Yes, SamBee, there can be love without sex and vice versa. But isn’t the bisexuality you refer to still same sex attraction? Either way, I think either the SSA or the opposite sex attraction will dominate, I’m not sure there can be a 50/50 split. I believe that the church is at odds with the self on this point. Theoretically in order to believe traditionally and have SSA, one would need to frame these things as either temptations from satan or a test from God to be overcome. I do not believe that SSA TBM’s have the option of self acceptance in this regard. (I’m only theorizing and am open to being corrected.) If we look at the sexuality spectrum from 1 to 10, 1 being completely hetro, and 10 being completely homo, then we are going to find people at all numbers of the scale. I have a gay coworker that is a 9-10 range. In a conversation once, he asked if I could have sex with a guy if I closed my eyes, and forced myself to. I told him no, I couldn’t, it would just not work for me. He told me that it is the same for him with women, even with his eyes closed and all the imagination in the world, he could not do it with a woman.
So when you know a person that is living in a hetro relationship, but claims to have SSA, I would say they are on the middle of the spectrum, 4-6, and are not in the 9-10 type.
SamBee wrote:Presumably the person you’re talking about swings both ways.
Although in modern society we often talk of love being sexual, I also believe it is possible to love someone without it being sexual.
SSA is odd. It can be a one-off thing for some people, or as in some cases an exclusive orientation.
Nope, this guy is not bisexual. Sexuality in his marriage is very hard because he is not sexually attracted to his wife. It’s hard for her and for him. Yet they definitely love each other in meaningful, non sexual ways and have been through so much together.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
DarkJedi wrote:Yes, SamBee, there can
be love without sex and vice versa. But isn’t the bisexuality you refer
to still same sex attraction? Either way, I think either the SSA or the
opposite sex attraction will dominate, I’m not sure there can be a
50/50 split.
Bisexuality is different. A bi person can fall in love with the opposite sex without compromise, but with SSA tendencies.
Even very biased towards SSA people such as Freddie Mercury have found the “one” woman. It can happen.
A lot of people are bisexual to some degree rather than 100% one or the other.
Daeruin wrote:
Nope,this guy is not bisexual. Sexuality in his marriage is very hard
because he is not sexually attracted to his wife. It’s hard for her and
for him. Yet they definitely love each other in meaningful, non sexual
ways and have been through so much together.
It’s interesting that he has three children. That would put him at least
8 or 9 rather than 10.
It’s easier for women with SSA perhaps, because men have to be able to
perform, but women don’t have to, in the bedroom and reproduction.
Generally I disapprove of “beards” as it’s unfair on the woman.
I am trying to get my head around this and I suppose it would be like me
having sex with a close male friend, without being attracted to them.
Funnily enough though, I would say friendship is the bedrock of marriage, not the bedroom.
I think the number of orthoprax members who are attracted to the same sex is much higher than most members realize, but the orthodox ones are mostly older generations (40+), imo. It really does depend how “gay” someone is. Daeruin’s inlaw is obviously not just someone who has SSA once or twice but is almost completely that way. There’s also appearance. Some folk can hide their sexuality better than others. Gays are not all Liberace’s.
SamBee wrote:I am trying to get my head around this and I suppose it would be like me
having sex with a close male friend, without being attracted to them.
Funnily enough though, I would say friendship is the bedrock of marriage, not the bedroom.
Yes, that’s about how I heard it described. The act feels kind of mechanical, like something that has to get done, without much passion in it. Not really satisfying for either of them. Your last sentence is true of this couple. They were best friends in high school and knew what they were getting into. They both felt that it was what God wanted them to do. It’s hard for me to imagine though.Daeruin wrote:SamBee wrote:I am trying to get my head around this and I suppose it would be like me
having sex with a close male friend, without being attracted to them.
Funnily enough though, I would say friendship is the bedrock of marriage, not the bedroom.
Yes, that’s about how I heard it described. The act feels kind of mechanical, like something that has to get done, without much passion in it. Not really satisfying for either of them. Your last sentence is true of this couple. They were best friends in high school and knew what they were getting into. They both felt that it was what God wanted them to do. It’s hard for me to imagine though.I think it is hard to imagine, but I also believe there was a time in the church, not all that long ago, when SSA members were encouraged to marry anyway (perhaps as part of the idea it was a choice and they could be “fixed”). I actually think there are more than we know about, perhaps silently suffering from lack of fulfillment.
Quote:Your last sentence is true of this couple. They were best friends in high school and knew what they were getting into. They both felt that it was what God wanted them to do. It’s hard for me to imagine though.
A lot of people get married without being able to get on – Liz Taylor and Richard Burton are a classic example – thanks to physical attraction.
I think when the sex life dies down, as it usually does, friendship keeps the marriage going and inspires affection. So in this case all is not lost.
However, a scenario where this happens and the couple don’t get on is completely disastrous.
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