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I found the article linked below, and I thought some of you might be interested in reading it. I only am including here the main reasons the article lists for young adults leaving their churches. Feel free to read the article and excerpt other things for discussion – or simply to discuss any or all of the reasons below. “Six Reasons Young Christians Leave Church”( http://biologos.org/blog/six-reasons-young-christians-leave-church Reason #1 – Churches seem overprotective.
Reason #2 – Teens’ and twenty-somethings’ experience of Christianity is shallow.
Reason #3 – Churches come across as antagonistic to science.
Reason #4 – Young Christians’ church experiences related to sexuality are often simplistic, judgmental.
Reason #5 – They wrestle with the exclusive nature of Christianity.
Reason #6 – The church feels unfriendly to those who doubt.
Interesting; to me these all sound like legitimate gripes that definitely apply to the LDS Church probably even more so than most other popular churches. For example, maybe some other churches also give people guilt-trips about things like porn, masturbation, and premarital sex but LDS Church leaders will directly ask them about their lack of chastity in regular interviews, tell them to not take the sacrament, and not let them get married in the temple for an extended amount of time if they ever confess certain supposed sins. Also, the LDS Church expects strict abstinence from alcohol and tobacco unlike many other churches so many members that don’t really want to stop drinking or smoking or don’t feel like they can stop become convinced that church is not for them. My guess is that the Church has actually retained adult members fairly well so far compared to other churches once they are already married to another active member but even that is starting to change with all the easily accessible anti-Mormon propaganda on the internet. That’s why I don’t think the Church can afford to compound the situation by ignoring problems with the overall experience they provide for the average member and simply expect people to be willing to endure and sacrifice so much for the Church anymore the way they have done so far.
I think, SD, as Mormon “insiders” we tend to magnify LDS problems and minimize those problems in other churches – since they are nearer and dearer to us when they are inside the Church. Believe me, when I talk with many of my friends in other churches, they usually are envious at the level of commitment and participation we have in our congregations from our teenagers. College-age is brutal for all denomination, and it is no worse for us than it is for them – at least in my extensive experience.
Specifically, I think we do a MUCH better job, generally speaking, at numbers 2 and 5. Our youth are much more involved than in most denominations (especially those who attend Seminary and/or serve missions), and our practice of vicarious temple work mitigates the exclusiveness claim of mainstream Christianity.
Reason #1 – Churches seem overprotective. Reason #2 – Teens’ and twenty-somethings’ experience of Christianity is shallow.
Reason #3 – Churches come across as antagonistic to science.
Reason #4 – Young Christians’ church experiences related to sexuality are often simplistic, judgmental.
Reason #5 – They wrestle with the exclusive nature of Christianity.
Reason #6 – The church feels unfriendly to those who doubt.
I agree with Ray that we do better than most, especially at #2, but I feel that all of these are a problematic balancing act. Consider:
1 – How do you provide value to people at various levels of readiness? Some could probably use more instruction than others. And without rules and standards, there is no unique identity to any group.
2 – The one problem I see here for LDS is confusing sentimentality with spirit at times.
3 – Officially the church’s stance is not incompatible with science. Yet, some previous leaders’ statements are very out there, and some current members also revel in ignorance.
4 – This one’s tough. How do you maintain the law of chastity (which is a gospel deal-breaker) without alienating those in the culture of hook ups.
5 – You want to claim being the best one without making it out like any other church is not as good. That’s a tough one.
6 – How do you promote spiritual experiences and then also make space for them to be doubted? Another tough balance.
For me, the young adult experience was VERY good. I had people who trained me to lead, I had structure, it helped me keep myself morally clean. It gave me a place to grow spiritually among good people. The sacrifices were bit in some ways, but I had the rest of my life ahead of me, adn felt I would have time to recover and grow financially. I liked the whole experience alot, except perhaps an experience with my SP which I got past for a few years. The problem for some of us is that the experience gets repetitive after you have done almost every calling at the Ward or Stake level after your mission and marriage. There isn’t much new — just the same old, same old. Now, this is just me — I’m big on Ideation, inventing new things, visualizing new situations — I get energy from that. So, when I hit High Priest Group leadership for the second time, and found it was a lot of rather drudgerous hard work like the kind I’d experienced years previously, that made it difficult to sustain.
Quote:4 – This one’s tough. How do you maintain the law of chastity (which is a gospel deal-breaker) without alienating those in the culture of hook ups.
Do your best to create an environment that allows socializing but within a culture of norms that discourage sex before marriage. I think BYU is like this. I know the place bothers some people with its over-regulation, but it’s an example of creating situations where people with common interests and values can get together. Too bad the Church is not expanding this part of their offerings to help their members.
Quote:5 – You want to claim being the best one without making it out like any other church is not as good. That’s a tough one.
I’m suprised YA’s in other Churches find Christianity exclusive! Try Mormonism! You have JS statement that the other Churches are “all wrong”, that LDS Baptism is the only way to exhaltation etcetera.
Quote:6 – How do you promote spiritual experiences and then also make space for them to be doubted? Another tough balance.
Preach against judgmentalism. Judgmentalism is alive in well in our Church; it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s alive and well in other Christian Churches going off my experiences knowing on doors of membes who have joined other Churches. After they get exposed to anti-Mormon literature, it’s as if we have horns. It wouldn’t surprise me if they are that way to other religions as well, or to others in their own religion who don’t live the standards.
I still think a good support mechanism would be a site where you can get advice and support directly from a group of moderators (only) that have unorthodox, accepting, non-judgmental views, but who are also positive about their Church’s experience. In my case, I developed coping mechanisms that are good, but I also got a healthy dose of doubt about other things that never bothered me previously by visiting the more disaffected parts of the Bloggernacle. So, perhaps mechanisms where you self-select on the basis of your commitment/faith issue, and mix ith others who have only those issues, and mods who are positive but accepting would be a better support mechanism than a totally public mechanism that exposes you to every nook and cranny of disaffection as you try to work out your own little subset of issues.
Quote:I’m suprised YA’s in other Churches find Christianity exclusive!
Mormonism might be exclusive in its preaching about mortal churches, but it’s about as inclusive as it gets in its afterlife theology. The rest of Christianity isn’t – not even close.
Yeah Ray and Hawk, here is the problem – we are very universal to those who are not in our faith. And very condemning to those who are. We don’t understand our own religion.
I think this article is right on. I don’t fault my own religion for failing me so much, I just think religion is failing in general. That’s just my opinion.
Quote:Yeah Ray and Hawk, here is the problem – we are very universal to those who are not in our faith. And very condemning to those who are.
We don’t understand our own religion.
Yup. There is a big difference between our theology, our religion and our church – and that doesn’t surprise me at all. It saddens me, but it doesn’t surprise me – and it’s something that has been a focus of mine in my callings for years and years.
Yeah ray, you need to let us know when the church, THE CHURCH, will welcome us back. You know what I mean, no need for apologetics.
I appreciate your work, and Brian’s – but you know what I mean.
Yes, I do know what you mean – and I’m working on it (as are many others). I think “The Church” wants to welcome you back, and I think “The Church” believes it is trying to welcome you back. I just believe “it” doesn’t know how to do so fully yet. Your local church is a different story, while my local church does a very, very good job right now. That’s both frustrating and encouraging, frankly.
Old-Timer wrote:…as Mormon “insiders” we tend to magnify LDS problems and minimize those problems in other churches – since they are nearer and dearer to us when they are inside the Church…Believe me, when I talk with many of my friends in other churches,
they usually are envious at the level of commitment and participation we have in our congregations from our teenagers. College-age is brutal for all denomination, and it is no worse for us than it is for them– at least in my extensive experience…Specifically, I think we do a MUCH better job, generally speaking, at numbers 2 and 5. Our youth are much more involved than in most denominations (especially those who attend Seminary and/or serve missions), and our practice of vicarious temple work mitigates the exclusiveness claim of mainstream Christianity. That doesn’t surprise me if some people from other churches are impressed by the typical Mormon’s level of commitment but I don’t know if more commitment is really better in every case; personally I think less is more sometimes. Just because the Church can get people to do things they aren’t really happy about it doesn’t mean they should to nearly the extent they currently do. The problem is that too many people will be left with the impression that church is basically not much fun and that it is mostly a pain and hassle that will make their life more difficult and complicated.
Even if other churches are not necessarily any better on average that doesn’t mean the Church is doing the best they possibly could. In many cases there is no direct competition with other churches because the LDS Church is just not going to be able to convert the vast majority of Christians any time soon anyway and if children don’t like their parents’ church for whatever reason then there’s a good chance they will just stay home as soon as they can make their own decisions without as much external pressure influencing them anymore. So the LDS Church basically has a limited opportunity to leave people with a positive impression about Mormonism and its followers but it looks like it is failing to do this in way too many cases when people end up associating the LDS Church with things like boring meetings, being told exactly what to do and believe in great detail, and being constantly judged by others.
DevilsAdvocate wrote:That doesn’t surprise me if some people from other churches are impressed by the typical Mormon’s level of commitment but I don’t know if more commitment is really better in every case; personally I think less is more sometimes. Just because the Church can get people to do things they aren’t really happy about it doesn’t mean they should to nearly the extent they currently do. The problem is that too many people will be left with the impression that church is basically not much fun and that it is mostly a pain and hassle that will make their life more difficult and complicated.
Sometimes I hear members of other Christian churches bemoan that the statistics for believers on such things as divorce, premarital pregnancy, substance abuse etc, is not significantly different than the statistics for non-believers. The theory goes that if we really believe, then our beliefs should be reflected by a change in the way we live our lives. I do not think that different from the world necessarily equals success, but the LDS church does seem to enjoy some statistical “otherworldness” on some of these issues.
P.S. It would also seem that “otherworldness” is a word that I just made up,
:think: but you know what I mean.
Roy wrote:…Sometimes I hear
members of other Christian churches bemoan that the statistics for believers on such things as divorce, premarital pregnancy, substance abuse etc, is not significantly different than the statistics for non-believers. The theory goes that if we really believe, then our beliefs should be reflected by a change in the way we live our lives.I do not think that different from the world necessarily equals success, but the LDS church does seem to enjoy some statistical “otherworldness” on some of these issues…P.S. It would also seem that “otherworldness” is a word that I just made up…but you know what I mean It makes sense that some people would think that but if this is the primary goal then it seems like Islam has achieved better results than the LDS Church overall in terms of producing non-worldly behavior in the highest number and percentage of people it can reach. This apparent success people see is misleading because this view ignores all the inactive members and ex-Mormons that often have a negative perception of religion in general in large part because of their own experiences with the LDS Church and its members.
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