Our Prophetic Church

[Anonymous]

jmb275 wrote:

I’m curious, why is using logic and rationality equally flawed in your view?

I say this because people seem to come to flawed conclusions via this route too. It isn’t that logic in itself is bad, just that we never really seem to have all the information. Once upon a time it was logical and rational to “know” that the earth was the center of the universe, and that the sun and all the stars moved around us. People watched these things move through the sky and came to logical conclusions.

The earth was also flat, once upon a time. Look in any direction where mountains don’t obstruct your view — you can clearly see that the whole world is flat. Every place we did this, the earth was flat. Therefore, we “knew” what was right. The earth was a big flat disk. If you went too far out in the ocean, you fell off and sea monsters ate you. It was all very logical and rational based on the information people had available to them.

Here’s one last example. I can look at the world and make a logical and rational conclusion that most of the people need to be removed. That would be the best and most efficient use of the resources. We are making a big mess of everything. Let’s kill all them except 500 million people. We can pick the best and the brightest for survival. Then we can make sure that the population never gets larger than that ever again. My gut and my feelings tell me that is not a “good” solution 😯 . It is irrational though, and just based on a feeling I have that murdering other people is wrong.

[Anonymous]

Valoel wrote:

I say this because people seem to come to flawed conclusions via this route too. It isn’t that logic in itself is bad, just that we never really seem to have all the information. Once upon a time it was logical and rational to “know” that the earth was the center of the universe, and that the sun and all the stars moved around us. People watched these things move through the sky and came to logical conclusions.

Ah, I see what you’re saying. Sure, I concur.

Valoel wrote:

Here’s one last example. I can look at the world and make a logical and rational conclusion that most of the people need to be removed. That would be the best and most efficient use of the resources. We are making a big mess of everything. Let’s kill all them except 500 million people. We can pick the best and the brightest for survival. Then we can make sure that the population never gets larger than that ever again. My gut and my feelings tell me that is not a “good” solution 😯 . It is irrational though, and just based on a feeling I have that murdering other people is wrong.

Let me give an example to the contrary. Suppose a bat and a ball together cost $1.10. The bat cost $1.00 more than the ball. How much does the ball cost?

Or how about this one: In a small pond the number of lily pads doubles each day. It starts out with a single lily pad in the pond. If it takes 14 days to cover the entire pond with lily pads, on which day was the pond half covered?

I don’t think I ever said we should only use rational, or logical thinking. I think we are agreeing that they ought to be used in conjunction. My beef comes in when people proclaim external “truth” based on spiritual experience, without checking it against the logic and reason. To me, the logic and reason that should be used is described in the “baloney detection kit” by Carl Sagan (search for it on google).

[Anonymous]

Sometimes it seems to me that following my heart is the logical thing to do, if I have searched and truly feel it is what I want. I got married at 22 a year after my mission. I remember wrestling logically that I was just getting back into school, only had $700 to my name, and should wait until I was done with school and started my career before getting married. But I didn’t want to. I felt my prayer was answered, I felt my heart was right, and I plunged ahead without it being reasonable.

Maybe that’s a different context than spiritual matters, but I think its kinda the same. If you have studied it out in your mind, then get a spiritual witness, it becomes logical and reasonable to believe in, even if others think it is illogical.

[Anonymous]

Heber13 wrote:

Sometimes it seems to me that following my heart is the logical thing to do, if I have searched and truly feel it is what I want. I got married at 22 a year after my mission. I remember wrestling logically that I was just getting back into school, only had $700 to my name, and should wait until I was done with school and started my career before getting married. But I didn’t want to. I felt my prayer was answered, I felt my heart was right, and I plunged ahead without it being reasonable.

That’s interesting. I got married 8 months after getting home to a girl I knew (but hadn’t dated) in High School. I had no education, no job, about $2000 to my name. I actually didn’t get an answer to my prayer, was very unconvinced it was the right thing to do, but went ahead with it based on pressure from fiance, social pressure (didn’t want to be one of those mid-twenty “menace to society” types). It’s worked out great for me and I love my wife very much, but I never really felt it was right.

Heber13 wrote:

Maybe that’s a different context than spiritual matters, but I think its kinda the same. If you have studied it out in your mind, then get a spiritual witness, it becomes logical and reasonable to believe in, even if others think it is illogical.

I think you’re right, I think it is kinda the same.

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