Our RS lesson on the "joy" of womanhood

[Anonymous]

http://bycommonconsent.com/2013/02/27/on-marriage-oneness-and-solitude/#more-42262

I thought this was a nice post at bycommonconsent. I liked: “A good marriage is one in which each partner appoints the other to be the guardian of his solitude, and thus they show each other the greatest possible trust.”

This quote from Wendell Berry is kind of a downer, but sometimes I think people need to change their expectations of marriage: “I take it as an axiom that one cannot know enough to get married, any more than one can predict a surprise…. The decision to marry is made in an inescapable condition of loneliness and ignorance, to which it, or something like it, is the only possible answer…. Marriage is not as nicely trimmed to its purpose as a bottlecap; it is a not entirely possible solution to a not entirely soluble problem. And this is true of the other human connections. We can commit ourselves fully to anything – a place, a discipline, a life’s work, a child, a family, a community, a faith, a friend – only in the same poverty of knowledge, the same ignorance of result, the same sense of self-subordination, the same final forsaking of other possibilities.”

[Anonymous]

MayB wrote:

I

My undergrad degree is in family studies and when they started talking about how the right way to make our families strong and happy is daily scripture study, prayer, temple attendance, yadda, yadda, yadda….I got a bit irritated. If we’re really going to be talking about strengthening families, lets talk about positive parenting techniques, or spending time together, or understanding the development of ourselves, our spouses and our children. Let’s talk about real resources outside the church that provide education on relationships, personal finances, or mental health. But no, these things are never mentioned in these discussions. Maybe they just want to talk about strengthening our families’ faith in and reliance on the church, but it’s never phrased that way.

I run into this All THE TIME when I sit in lessons. There is so much good research, stable, agreed to that represents PRACTICAL knowledge we can apply. And in my own lessons I feel like I’m on the edge of apostasy by teaching it because it’s no “church approved”. Perhaps this comes with education.

[Anonymous]

On Own Now wrote:

MayB wrote:

maybe, for her, the traditional gender roles are fulfilling and all she ever wants from life

MayB… I’m going to pick on your wording just a little here. I don’t believe you meant it the way you said it, based on the rest of your post. In fact, I’ve really enjoyed reading your thoughts on this thread. But, I think it’s a good opportunity to talk about how to make our attitudes have value in the Church.

I think it’s really important not to take sides… not to assume that the way we do something is the right way. That’s what started this thread out… somebody else talking that way. It’s crucial for us, since we represent somewhat of a dissenting voice to the norms of the Church, to talk in terms that validate individual choice and diversity. Saying things like “all she wants from life” is just switching sides without expanding the tent. I’ve heard that exact same phrase used pejoratively against women who stay at home with the kids and women who seek a career. My wife was a stay-at-home mom for several years while our kids were young. I know very liberal non-LDS people that have done this same thing. There is nothing wrong or second-class about it. It’s just as valid as having the dad stay at home or having both parents work and the kids in daycare or having both adults work and having no kids. If I could go back to one time in my life and live there for the rest of time, I’d pick that time when we had all our young kids at home, and before my wife went to work outside the home. It was a tough time in a lot of ways, but it was a very rewarding time. I know my wife feels the same way, because she has told me so. People who choose one lifestyle over another are not superior or inferior. It’s their choice and their life. If it works for them, great. It probably will work for others as well. The purpose for expanding the tent is to include others previously kept out, not to kick out the ones already in it.

The Church culture of assuming one and only one lifestyle is the ideal is what is irksome. We need to strive FOR diversity, not AGAINST one particular lifestyle.

You’re right. It was a poor choice of words on my part. I was trying to say that while her experience and feelings are valid, presenting them as a one-size-should-fit-all sort of thing can be damaging to others. But i can see now that it sounded more like an attack on those who choose and love that lifestyle. thank you for helping me see that. i’ll be more careful in the future.

I’m a huge supporter of families doing what they feel is right for their situation. I have been a stay at home mom for 10 years. At first it was because I was trying to fit the good Mormon wife mold and I had a very hard time with it. Once I started to just be myself and feed those parts of my identity that I had been starving out trying to fit the expectation, I began to enjoy my children more and my marriage thrived as well. We all need the freedom to recognize and nurture our individuality.

[Anonymous]

If you’re working at your marriage you’re doing something wrong?? I think that is the most backwards thinking I have ever heard. Although Im too young to be married, having seen my parents marriage fail, I know you must work at (some, not all) marriages to keep them strong. Putting work & effort into a marriage shows how much you love and value your relationship with your spouse, and that you care about the commitment you made, instead of just throwing your hands in the air and saying “oh guess that didn’t work out” without trying at all!

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