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Well, we all know people who have this or that calling like FOREVER! Some people have multiple callings and besides church run several other charitable activities, work, have a family and seem to be superman or superwoman. We all know slackers in church who try to avoid callings, who do things half-heartily, refuse to do home or visiting teaching, go to sacrament meeting once a month as to fulfull the Temple Recommend requirements, and go to the temple like once a year. They are considered active.
Well, In General Conference people are called to do more, to be more. To be their best self.
These calls are for the second type of people, but how do you think the first type of people feels after those calls? Guilty that they are still not doing enough. The second type of people are so stiffnecked or hardhearted that they don’t even feel pricked by it.
What should change? Because I am type one and I feel really unhappy. I loved conference, but I will always feel guilty that I am not doing enough, although before my mission I had 6 callings, had perfect visiting teaching.
Now I have 1 calling (and I don’t want more!), still do 100% visiting teaching, and trying to give it 110%. And I feel like I still need to do more while I struggle with so much!
The world wide training was quite specific that members are to only have one calling, and that church leaders need to be more careful about calling folks who are already overburdened. I think the leaders are trying to address this problem, but, then like you say, they lay the guilt on so thick it almost seems like they are talking in circles.
cwald wrote:I think the leaders are trying to address this problem, but, then like you say, they lay the guilt on so thick it almost seems like they are talking in circles.
lol, yeah, that’s how I see it as well.
You sound like me several years ago RMSister. What it took for me to “unguiltified” was to get so overbooked with commitments, of which Church was a major drain — that it affected my health – physically and mentally. My boss told me that at the height of my burnout, I looked like I’d aged 10 years. I entered into a bout of depression as well — my first one in my life, diagnosed as clinical depression, occurred over a calling-related incident, which I overcame in 3 weeks on some meds.
Then it hit me again about 6 months later as a result of overwork. My sister, a medical reseaercher and doctor, told me she suffers the same thing occasionally, and the trigger is usually overwork.
My 6-month bout of depression wasn’t as severe as my initial experience with it, but everyone could tell I was burnt out. My Bishop even said “I think you’re doing too much”. I kept on, and then eventually asked to be released a month or so later. Long-time members of this discussion forum are probably sick of hearing this on this disussion forum, so I will put it in quotes for an newbie’s benefits so it’s easily skipped by long-time posters as this board. It’s the trigger that cured me of feeling guilty about doing less at Church:
Quote:
At that point, the Stake leaders showed incredible indifference, culminating with a release several months later, with no real communication in between. People still expected me to do my calling (HPGL) — and they KNEW the details of my situation — graduate school, young family, career needing revitalization, and part-time work important for my career. Yet they did nothing in a timely manner that communicated any respect for my situation.So, after that, I’d had it. I saw that all this emphasis on working your tail off in callings was for the interests of the Church and leadership, and not necessarily for what was good for the individual. There was a Bishopric, a High Councillor, and two members of the SP who were well-advised of all aspects of my situation, and acted with utter indifference nonetheless.
That experience above has since cured me of the guilt that comes from not doing enough. My boss actually sat me down during the burnout period and told me I have to start doing what’s best for my health, and put me through a period of light work for a while — unasked for by myself. She said “we have to get you rejuvinated”, even though I’d shared nothing about the depression, the overwork, and the Church leaders’ negative contribution to my situation (obviously). Her perception that I needed to be rejuvinated scared me, because I saw that keeping so many balls in the air was even having an impact on my livelihood. It’s a good thing I’ve been considered a strong performer for years, and that my burn-out didn’t hurt my full-time job any (as far as I know; I’m still employed and survived another bout of layoffs).
So, recently, I just told my new Bishop I don’t want a calling right now. And I don’t feel terrible about it at all. And he made it easy by not answering it either; a case in which indifference is a blessing.
I am working on a PhD and trying to get financially prepared given some looming health pressures with my son. The Church will survive without me — spreading to every continent “until the Great Jehovah says the work is done”. That’s my new mantra.
In fact, if people like you and I stop doing everything the leaders ask, then guess what? They dig into the group of people who may well have the capacity but fly under the radar. That happened after I was released, they called the most reluctant quorum member I’ve ever had – never came to priesthood, put me off whenever I talked to him, and wouldn’t lift a finger. Now HE’S in the hot seat, so to speak, and I support him best I can. He sometimes says “I don’t feel I can call on Brother Silentdawning and Brother XXX, former HPGL’s beceause I didn’t give them a shred of help”. But I support him minimally nonetheless. The way I see it, it’s his turn at the wheel. If I hadn’t bowed out, I’d still be doing it.
And I have no compunction about telling leaders of the Church when I’m at capacity anymore. No compunction whatsoever — last time, it was too close of a call, and I saw the Dark Side of the Force when it comes to leadership expectations or caring about the individual. You have to look after yourself, or you are no good to anyone, and sometimes, that means telling the leadership you don’t want a calling. Let that be inspiration for their decision-making.
Feeling overwhelmed by guilt of not doing enough is what triggered my faith-crisis. I do feel that church leaders should start giving out some positive reinforcement. Yes, we get the thank you at the time of our release but usually there aren’t any pats on the back for the work we do. And the talks are always about doing more. It’s the culture and it will be hard to change but if more people start setting boundaries around callings and other expectations I think it will slowly change. CG
All this considered, I think it’s very interesting that the sense of immediacyis such a necessary and integral part of the Gospel. Unlike Buddhism or Daoism or other “Eastern” traditions, it sets Christianity apart as a tradition in which nothing else will save us if we don’t get going, if we don’t push and push. Eschatology requires it, and since John the Baptist and Jesus Christ were intensely “the end is near” prophets, it continues on in Christianity. In fact, anytime you see Christians that *don’t* feel a sense of urgency, you know they’ve fallen away to some extent from the ‘true Gospel’.
But combine this with the Western European cultural value of “get ‘er done” world transformation (as opposed to personal transformation) and look at what’s happened. It can be a mess. OTOH, look at how that same “get ‘er done” mentality also results in relieving much suffering around the world (and even in the heart of buddhist/hindu India). There ARE positive aspects to it!
Very interesting to me.
HiJolly
canadiangirl wrote:Feeling overwhelmed by guilt of not doing enough is what triggered my faith-crisis. I do feel that church leaders should start giving out some positive reinforcement. Yes, we get the thank you at the time of our release but usually there aren’t any pats on the back for the work we do. And the talks are always about doing more. It’s the culture and it will be hard to change but if more people start setting boundaries around callings and other expectations I think it will slowly change.
CG
I agree wholeheartedly. I believe that as a leader, you should not only be fixated on getting Church results, you should work at developing the people under you, and helping them have a positive experience as a leader, or member of your group.
My former Bishop had a knack for squelching every initiative I had that bore fruit. Wouldn’t fund letters that generated a stream of address changes that could be forwarded to the person’s new Ward, facilitating continued contact with the moving person who no longer came to Church. He wouldn’t allow me to get people to donate stamps either!!! We had these after-Church socials that were very popular. He squelched those, and wouldn’t let us make them pot-luck either. I had a system for tracking the level of contact people wanted with the Ward on the MLS system –it provided a central repository of information for RS, EQ and HPGL to share information about visits in a central kind of database so we weren’t annoying people who said over and over again they didn’t want contact. Nothing personal, just “Prefers letters”, “visited by Brother X, wrote name removal letter” and was privy only to people given membership rights — adult auxiliary leadership. I showed up one day and all our rights had been removed. I had a really successful emergency preparedness committee, which he wound up and insisted we didn’t put so much effort into our annual emergency preparation 5th Sunday as we did the previous year.
So, what was I left with? A struggling HT program where no amount of PPI’s would seem to motivate anyone to do anything, although it did provide reinforcement to faithful home teachers. And then, my release — what a terrible experience. He never PPI’d me either just to see how it was going.
This has given me new philosophy — I see the role of leaders to also help their leaders have positive experiences so they are willing to shoulder other responsiblities in the future. Our ex-Bishop, the one who succeeded the Bishop I’ve described here, was good at it. I think he recognized that auxiliary leaders are his eyes, ears, and hands, and he kept them “well-maintained” by regular PPI’s, appreciation and certain kinds of accolades when they left the calling. My wife reported to him and her feelings about being a leader were inspiring based on her work with this guy.
WE don’t seek recognition, but I’ll tell you, with some of the callings I left on a good note, with people sincerely thanking me for what I did — it was hugely rewarding and reinforcing.
It was mentioned again in General Conference that if a woman has a calling with heavy responsibilities, her husband should NOT have such a calling if there are children in the home – so he can spend the time necessary for their to be a proper balance in the home. The message is being preached – and preached regularly, but getting the water to the end of the local rows . . .
It’s probably no surprise that I think the CHI of instructions might do better by providing some timelines for the release of people from callings — such as the time between private notification you’re going to be released, and the official release in public meetings. And also, in the Bishop and SP Handbook, some discussion about how to handle situations when people request releases. As you know, this is a huge sticking point with me now. It’s human nature (I’ve been there) to act quickly when the prize is something you want (such as extending a calling so work can get done in the Ward). It’s also human nature to drag one’s feet when it’s time to give someting up (like cut a check for a refund, or pay-out a contract after the work has been completed, or, release someone when it’s time). I think addressing this tendency with some general timelines might make for more positive experiences when people serve in the Church.
The way it stands, more than once I’ve felt my service in a calling is for the good of the Church, and not for my own good — particularly last time when it hurt me in my work and health.
As you know, I’m REALLY careful about what I take on now at Church. And my feelings toward hefty Church callings, even in the future when I may have more time is not nearly as positive as it once was. The Church can’t come across as one-sided in its interests, and that means greater consideration for the interests of the people who are currently serving.
The guideline you quote, Ray, is a step in the right direction, but based on my experience, it could go a lot further to address the kind of problems that led to my own angst with activity and the Church right now.
I agree, SD, with your last paragraph – but Elder Packer was crystal clear in the CHI training that we need to stop looking at families as a tool to staff the Church, and in “Concern for the One” Elder Wirthlin said that some people leave or stop attending because they are tired. The message is being preached, but, when push comes to shove, many local leaders aren’t “hearkening”.
Old-Timer wrote:I agree, SD, with your last paragraph – but Elder Packer was crystal clear in the CHI training that we need to stop looking at families as a tool to staff the Church, and in “Concern for the One” Elder Wirthlin said that some people leave or stop attending because they are tired.
The message is being preached, but, when push comes to shove, many local leaders aren’t “hearkening”.
I like what I’m hearing from the people above. One of the apostles came to our stake a year ago, and said “We can’t fire you, because we didn’t hire you! We can’t pay you, and we won’t, we can’t and we ought not!”. This was a glimmer of hope in my mind at the time, it sounds like this is spreading a bit…
OK, but this begs a larger question — if we expect less of the members, then what about achievement? What about all the management reports on % of TR holders, new convert baptisms, home teaching and all the other things that get measured and are expected to improve? What about the attitudes of Stake people who get ticked off when key leaders don’t attend stake meetings? When I was Stake Exec Sec, the SP would be VERY upset when a particular Bishop wasn’t at Bishop’s training, or people didn’t come to meetings, whether the meetings were helpful to that busy Bishop or not.
Ultimately — we are volunteers. We hope people see their Church callings as important investments in their relationship with God, and their life’s mission, but with several million people – that isn’t going to be the case. So, I have trouble reconciling volunteerism with the corporate reporting and number-improving expectations we get from the people above us — which often requires treating people like employees.
How do you reconcile the two — systems and metrics that emphasize numbers and achievement that rival metrics we see in the corporate world, with the growing recognition that we are volunteers? I don’t see the two co-existing very comfortably, quite honestly.
Old-Timer wrote:The message is being preached, but, when push comes to shove, many local leaders aren’t “hearkening”.
It’s one of my main issues with the LDS church. Many of our members, who criticize some of us for not “following the prophet,” are in effect, not following the very prophets they are accusing us of abandoning by their actions and stubbornness to change and give up some of the cultural zealously. Irony?
I actually think that when our prophets talk about “following the prophets,” it is just as much of a statement to the fundamental, orthodox members as us unorthodox. The orthodox members are really struggling to CHANGE and follow the prophets council to become more “Christ-like and Christ-center,” rather than being so “church-like” and “church-centered.” IMO.
Amen, cwald. I love the way you phrased that – and recognizing that actually can go a long way toward peace and understanding. It can lead to bitterness and anger, of course – but it doesn’t have to go that way. What you just articulated is the heart of what I consider to be the “pure” definition of Cafeteria Mormonism – that ALL of us are sinners who are doing our best to figure it out and live it as well as we can – and that if WE need other people’s understanding, tolerance and patience, we ought to strive to grant the same to them (even if they don’t recognize they need it just as much as we do).
canadiangirl wrote:I do feel that church leaders should start giving out some positive reinforcement. Yes, we get the thank you at the time of our release but usually there aren’t any pats on the back for the work we do.
:clap: Hear hear!:clap: I think it is important that we regularly receive compliments. Right now I am a teacher in primary and I have been asked, as a sort of sidenote, to organise activities for the boys and girls of my group as well.
So we had the first activity. I’ve learned loads about organisation during it, and apparantly the parents were very happy about it. To who do they report it? The Primary president who is too busy to pass it on to me. Just said on sunday: heard a lot of good things about it.
A thank you would have been nice.
They want a teachers meeting… one is available then the other another day, of course… and then it all grows quiet and nothing is done. Well, they all acknowledge my class is the most difficult. Except for 1 girl they all have mental or physical handicaps, and on top of that we have 3 different languages in the class! And we all try to understand. Now I have a class of 8 kids.
Luckily they recognise it’s hard and someone from the bishopric is going to talk to me this sunday about my class. We’ll see what happens.
RMsister wrote:canadiangirl wrote:I do feel that church leaders should start giving out some positive reinforcement. Yes, we get the thank you at the time of our release but usually there aren’t any pats on the back for the work we do.
:clap: Hear hear!:clap: I think it is important that we regularly receive compliments. Right now I am a teacher in primary and I have been asked, as a sort of sidenote, to organise activities for the boys and girls of my group as well.
So we had the first activity. I’ve learned loads about organisation during it, and apparantly the parents were very happy about it. To who do they report it? The Primary president who is too busy to pass it on to me. Just said on sunday: heard a lot of good things about it.
One one hand, I think it would to have that kind of regular appreciation and recognition you suggest RMsister. However, I also realize the need to go easy on the volunteer Ward leaders who have a lot of frustration and problems to deal with as it is — and who also work for long periods of time with no thanks or recognition. That might sound odd given some of my gripes since I started posting here.
However, I would like to see priesthood leaders at least PPI their Ward leaders regularly to see how they are feeling in their callings….and to give them appreciation and motivation, particularly when they face setbacks. Also, to find ways of helping them feel good about what they accomplished when they leave the calling. Ideally, we serve for its own sake, however, given the tendency for this organization to place heavy commitments on its members, I think that upon release, there might be more than an obligtory, standard wording of “all those who would like to thank xyz for their service please raise their hand”. Such scripting lumps the people who truly gave with their heart along side all the people who were released because they never functioned etcetera. So, I never attach any importance to those scripted thank-yous.
I had one Bishop who said, upon releasing me “Brother SD, with the work you’ve done in this young men’s program, these boys will never forget you. The YM program was an area I knew was always functioning well on your leadership, so I could focus attention on other problems…thanks”. I left that calling feeling I had done a good job, and willing to do it again. And it didn’t take much effort.
Contrast that with my most recent HGPL release, which ended with indifference and sloppiness on the HC, SP and Bishopric. I’ve seen that enough that I’m gonna struggle to enter into a situation like that again. It’s going to take a huge reworking of my heart to figure out how to serve cheerfully given the possibility of such indifference from Ward leaders when the calling becomes too much for me.
Another thing — don’t be afraid to thank the Ward leaders for all their hard work. I had one brother who told me I was the most outstanding such and such leader he’d ever worked with. Then he cited a long list of things that he appreciated….that was like a cold drink in the middle of the desert. And even the rank and file of the Church can lift the leaders that way.
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