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Surely this will sound a bit dramatic, but in all fairness, I am a mess right now and just need some kind of feedback. While trying to find a middle way, I am discovering that this is much more difficult than I thought it would be. I am trying to be reasonable and respect my wife’s request to not discuss my concerns with her, but because she knows I have them, she has started assuming things that aren’t necessarily true and they are leading to us having contention. What do I do? Please help! Just a few things that jump to mind immediately. 1) Frame it NOT as “a middle way” but as “figuring out my way within the Church”. It’s not a middle way; it’s your way.
2) Assure her that you aren’t looking to leave the LDS Church. You’re just trying to find peace in it – and that the most important aspect of that is your relationship with her. Assure her that you aren’t going to endanger your relationship with her – here in mortality or eternally. Assure her that you are dedicated to staying LDS – and not just staying but being happy and at peace with activity in the LDS Church.
3) Shut up about specifics until she is in a place where she can understand them – and totally respect her perspective as equally valid for her as yours is for you. I’ve been married for 25 years and have an extremely strong marriage, and my wife and I have talked about lots of my heterodox views over the years – but there are a couple of things that we’ve talked about only recently. She couldn’t have handled them until the last couple of months when we’ve been living apart due to my new job, so I didn’t bring them up for 25 years. Otoh, I never try to change her mind about the things we discuss here. Her view is just as important for her as my view is for me. I love and respect her too much to do otherwise.
4) Tell her that you are talking with other members who have gone through what you are experiencing and have found peace and purpose in the Church. I don’t like this next advice, personally, but, if she needs assurance in this way that you aren’t associating with a bunch of apostates, “calling drop” a little. We have people who have served in just about every local calling possible who participate and lurk, and I personally have served on multiple High Councils and currently am a Ward Missionary.
5) Don’t let your physical relationship suffer as a result of anything you do. Don’t withdraw from her – in any way.
Thanks Ray, That was helpful. I feel that I am doing a pretty good job of most of what you are suggesting. At least I think I am. I have assured her that I am neither looking for a way out of the church or that I plan to leave. She isn’t buying it. She thinks it is a done deal that I will inevitably leave. She won’t hear it otherwise and because of how I feel, it is “ruining her fairytale.” Incorrectly, I responded, with, “I’m not wrecking your fairytale, I didn’t ask to know the things I know now and wish I had known from the beginning.” I do not try to sway her are convince her she is wrong. To the contrary, I support her belief and assure he that I respect it even If I don’t completely share it any more. Last night during FHE, she gave a lesson on modesty. Later she told me that she felt terribly uncomfortable because she thought I was mocking her inside about the message. This was not true at all. I would never mock her beliefs or intentionally hurt her. Especially about this. I suppose that part of my problem is that I am not exactly sure what to think or feel anymore. I feel very numb. I didn’t want this to go down this way. Now I feel angry that I am possibly going to suffer the consequences for someone else’s behavior. I just can’t wrap my head around some of these things that I have put on ice for so many years. Angels, Gold Plates, opportune revelations, infidelity/polygamy, blacks and the priesthood. Why was any of that necessary. What we teach and believe could have just as easily been accomplished without all that. Sorry for the rant.
HRHB wrote:Surely this will sound a bit dramatic, but in all fairness, I am a mess right now and just need some kind of feedback. While trying to find a middle way, I am discovering that this is much more difficult than I thought it would be. I am trying to be reasonable and respect my wife’s request to not discuss my concerns with her, but because she knows I have them, she has started assuming things that aren’t necessarily true and they are leading to us having contention. What do I do? Please help!
Dude, its not over-dramatic. I relate to it entirely. It is just the reality you are in right now.So give yourself some credit, it is harder than it seems, and it takes a while to figure it out, including time to fail at it and learn from those failures. But you’re being honest and you are trying to do what is right according to your conscience.
Try to let go of fearing what she thinks (although, I will tell you from personal experience, it stings…and its hard). But try to frame things as where you are going towards…peace, happiness, enlightenment, responsibility, doing things for the right reasons. The positive side of what you are doing. Then, as much as possible, frame it in Mormon-speak. Things that make sense to believing members. It is honestly showing you are doing what the Lord has asked us to do, endure to the end by finding ways to endure and stay.
Middle-way is becoming comfortable in your own skin, despite what others fear. If there are some things you need to keep working on, work on those and show progress to your spouse on those things, with the wise addition that a person can’t do everything all at once (Do not run faster than you have strength). So you’re working on the most important things, because as church leaders say, there is good, better, best…and you’re trying to do what you think is best. (that is the same as saying you are cafeteria style, but saying it with Mormon-speak).
Panic is unfortunately the emotion we often feel in going through the change and unsure of the outcome yet. But it does not need to signify you’re doing anything wrong…only that you’re still working on it.
My daughter gave me a picture frame with her and me laughing, and on it the caption reads:
Quote:It will all be OK when it is over. If its not all OK, then its not all over.
Hang in there, HRHB, we’re pulling for ya!There are some mormonstories podcasts about mixed-faith marriages which may be helpful. You may want to try listening to a couple of them to see what other people have tried, what has and hasn’t worked for them, and maybe to get some insight into what your wife may be saying that you may not be hearing. I think you need to remember that in a very real sense, this is your problem. Things were going along great until you decided to start reading stuff, or questioning, or thinking about things too much. I’ve gone down the same path and that is how you will be seen from time to time. Be understanding, not defensive. Your wife is frightened about the future. Your job is to reassure her in any genuine way that you can that in spite of your new and unorthodox way of viewing the world, the things that really matter between the two of you, and between you and God will never change. Doing this in a language she feels comfortable with is always a good idea, as others have noted.
You won’t be able to do either of those things unless you are confident that you are heading in the right direction. Faith in yourself is contagious, as is despair. Are you comfortable with where you are going? Do you see a path ahead which will lead you to become a better person, whatever that means to you? This can take time, so don’t worry if you can’t see where it’s all leading. If you can be confident that your heart is in the right place, then you’re okay.
If you are panicking, it may be because you are still getting the hang of dealing with the incongruities and cognitive dissonance, and all that that implies You will find your feet at some point, and it will all become a lot easier.
And, no, you’re not overreacting. This is serious business.
If she’s making assumptions about what you believe then I would talk about those assumptions and clarify them. That’s low-hanging fruit because if they are misconceptions, you can clear them up. As far as the other stuff goes — yep — dont’ talk about it with her. Talk about it here. Hi HRHB, I have almost no time- but I wanted to add that, “It gets better.”
Perhaps it would be helpful to focus on what you do believe. This may be difficult in a time of deconstruction, but for me I have always felt in my heart that God is our Father and that familial relationships do persist in some fashion (often described as families are forever) in the next life. Maybe you are figuring the rest out, but if there are core things that remain in you – it may be helpful to let her know these things from a position of positive belief. And remember, “It gets better.”
HRHB, I have started to reply to your post a dozen times but just can’t come up with any words. I feel compelled to try for my own sanity and I hope that this won’t be offensive to you or your wife.
First thing, life is not a fairy tale. Life is blood, sweat, tears, dirt, laughter, confusion, rain, and sometimes, when the conditions are just perfect – we get the magic of rainbows. But that’s not what life is about. Life is about learning to love as Christ did and helping each other home through the same selfless charity He demonstrated. That requires heartaches and suffering and opposition. And that requisite charity starts at home. It begins with our ourselves as we accept the transforming power of grace, and then with our spouse and children as we seek to share the peace we’ve found and the love we’ve experienced. It then ranges, according to J. Smith, to bless the whole world. This love is manifest through patience, long suffering, peace and compassion even when – no, especially when – those responses aren’t deserved or are hard to mete out.
If your wife is more concerned with a romantic notion of sappy love songs, adorable family photos in coordinated outfits, and the facade of being the perfect Mormon family, then the promises she made in the temple were empty. That’s because those promises were based on creating eternal family ties through the proper exercise of priesthood (D&C 121) which includes personal virtue and love
unfeigned. They weren’t based on selfish desires for a picture perfect life but on a commitment to help each other return to God’s presence, regardless of how circuitous that route may be. Where is her hope? Where is her faith? Where is her trust in the God who uses the most adverse conditions to make His work and glory manifest?
I promise that there is something so much more beautiful than what she can presently imagine – not a fairy tale – something real, but the only way to get
thereis by going through here. Giving up on a spouse who wanders is not the Lord’s way. (Have her read Hosea.)
If she has a testimony of the gospel, now is the time to show it.
Everyone else already gave wise advise. I can’t really add anything new at this point. They said it already. HRHB wrote:Surely this will sound a bit dramatic, but in all fairness, I am a mess right now and just need some kind of feedback. While trying to find a middle way, I am discovering that this is much more difficult than I thought it would be.
Just wanted to chime in and say at least: Yes. It really is hard. It gets better over time. But I still go through ups and downs even after years. My heart goes out to you. Hang in there. You’re doing the best you can with a tough, no-win situation (on some levels).
mercyngrace wrote:…life is not a fairy tale…that’s not what life is about. Life is about learning to love as Christ did and helping each other home through the same selfless charity He demonstrated. That requires heartaches and suffering and opposition. And that
requisite charity starts at home. It begins with our ourselves…This love is manifest through patience, long suffering, peace and compassioneven when – no, especially when – those responses aren’t deserved or are hard to mete out…Where is her hope? Where is her faith? Where is her trust in the God who uses the most adverse conditions to make His work and glory manifest?… Giving up on a spouse who wanders is not the Lord’s way. (Have her read Hosea.)…If she has a testimony of the gospel, now is the time to show it.That would be nice if most members thought this is what the gospel means but unfortunately the gospel according to many lessons young women in the Church are routinely indoctrinated with is mostly that they need to marry a “worthy” Mormon in the temple and start having babies because everything else is supposedly secondary in importance. Other than that they will mostly hear about the typical correlated material and Mormon traditions about things like tithing, the WoW, having a testimony of the restoration (one trueness), prophets, and obedience but things like faith, hope, and charity are generally an optional side note that are often ignored more than other Church doctrines and policies that members are specifically asked about in “worthiness” interviews. So for many Church members there is nothing to really prepare them to react in a somewhat reasonable or decent way to the unexpected news that their spouse has lost faith in the Church and many will seriously consider just starting over and trying to find a better (more righteous) marriage partner and other Church members or even bishops will often encourage this general reaction as well without needing official support from the Church for it.
I have nothing more to add that hasn’t already been said. Perhaps the best supportive comment ever made to me on this board, was simply this
Quote:“Yep. Sometimes, it just sucks.”
Thanks Brain.
Hang in there. You are not alone.
HRHB wrote:Now I feel angry that I am possibly going to suffer the consequences for someone else’s behavior.
This really is the worst part. I remember it vividly – being simply dumbfounded that such grave punishments could be held over my head for wanting to do as I honestly saw as right in condemning falsehoods and wanting to speak and praise others who want to simply speak the truth – the blunt simple and complete truth.
Then I began to realize that a part of my conditioning was also contributing to the problem. The part that convinced me all truth is clear and simply defined. While I still wish more of our difficult history was widely understood in the church, I realize the whole of the problem – including different people’s individual needs – is much more complex than I originally understood. I also came to realize HOW I framed the issues made all the difference. If I came at the same problem from a more familiar or friendly angle it opened doors where an opposing approach would put up walls.
HRHB wrote:I just can’t wrap my head around some of these things that I have put on ice for so many years. Angels, Gold Plates, opportune revelations, infidelity/polygamy, blacks and the priesthood. Why was any of that necessary. What we teach and believe could have just as easily been accomplished without all that. Sorry for the rant.
You are asking the right questions. Remember God IS a God of truth (and love) while all men are flawed and fallible (some revelations or stories may not be so “inspired”). Personally I think all these things are given for our experience and benefit, it is how we apply them to our lives that makes all the difference.
Keep searching! It is a journey. You’re on a good path.
:thumbup: I am so thankful for StayLDS and the people who have responded to me. I know that I am pretty hit and miss, but I’m a busy guy. I’m certainly not out of the woods yet, but indeed, “Things do get better.” Some days are tougher than others. I have been listening to Podcasts and reading online about things. I would say that I don’t think my testimony of the church is getting any stronger, but it is evolving. I continue to be content to stay right where I am at because my marriage means more to me than leaving a church I have serious doubts about. I suppose that I believe that truth will ultimately prevail and my wife and I will one day understand things the same. I don’t feel a need to bolt from the church like I can imagine some would. There are great benefits for me and my family by staying. Thanks you again from the bottom of my troubled heart to all you who have offered your insight, knowledge and experience. It is greatly appreciated. Speaking of the truth ultimately prevailing, Am I the only one who has a sense that the church as we know it is in peril and doesn’t know it?
HRHB, How is your wife doing?
mercyngrace wrote:HRHB,
How is your wife doing?
That is a good question. I have been pretty honest with her about my feelings and discoveries. Not overly detailed, but she is college educated and very intelligent. She says she thinks the whole thing sucks because she loves me but doesn’t feel the same as I do. She’s not very deep when it comes to these matters. It would be difficult for her to find much interest in “studying” the BOM much less reading theory about DNA as it relates to Native American origins. It would never occur to her to wonder where the actual temple endowment came from or that it ever even evolved. Again, she is a very smart woman and I am in awe of her strength, I just think that, for her, looking at these things is still taboo. I think that she feels that since I may not believe some things, that it is up to her now to teach them to our children alone and that privately I’ll be mocking those teachings.On a side note, I feel somewhat of a coward. My whole life I have been one of the leaders of our family. Parents, aunts, uncles, cousins, brothers, sisters, nieces and nephews have all seen me as an example. I don’t need that part, but my fear is that if I left or even partially expressed my serious doubts, it would negatively impact my relationships and standing with them. Like my wife said, this just sucks!
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