Paradox of Creativity?

[Anonymous]

A thought that I’ve had recently, had it’s genesis in trying to teach my very young boys to think in creative ways, expand their creativity, think outside the box.

Since we’re all going to church together, I’ve felt the twinge of memory of my own childhood and the fact that I was taught “spiritual” things in the way you would teach math: rote memorization, logical deduction, etc.

I then had the thought of the most visible mormon “creative” people in the current 20-30-something generation.

In my mind they are:

1) Stephanie Meyer of the “Twilight” series of books

2) Brandon Flowers, lead singer of the rock band The Killers

3) Dustin Lance Black, Oscar-winning screenwriter of the movie “Milk”

All three were raised in relatively TBM families and as adults have various levels of self-identity with the church. Black has officially withdrawn, Flowers self-identifies as currently Mormon but has “jack-mormon” tendencies, and Meyer self-identifies as a “straight-laced” mormon, though writing books about vampires (albeit chaste vampires) seems unorthodox.

And, of course, we are all pretty aware of the dearth of creative work in the recent “Mormon Cinema” movement.

I’m trying not to make a judgment call on this, but, being in a creative field myself, I wonder if orthodoxy and creativity can coincide. For myself, I’ve always approached my work from a “non-orthodox” paradigm: I consciously did NOT “guide” my creativity from orthodox, victorian standards. I guess that was the rebel streak in me that helped me maintain some intellectual balance over the years.

So, can creativity flourish in an orthodox paradigm? Are there examples? Obviously, this is not limited to just the mormon orthodox experience.

[Anonymous]

Absolutely!! There is nothing about my mormon upbringing or what I perceive is expected for worthiness that would thwart creativity. Don’t you think the creative process is fundamentally God-like? I think some think that any censorship at all thwarts the process. I however do not (as if using swear words over and over in a script is a good substitute for good writing.) I have been involved in all sorts of creative expressions through out my life….and if a PB means anything to you, you would see lots of celebration of creativity and self expression in mine.

I see creativity as being a very broad thing as it can span from the theater – to the sandbox – to the board room.

This may be of interest to you. I saw this pod cast on the subject and how schools are training the creativity out of our kids. Let me see if I can dig up a link.

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html

(there are some other good ones if you search under “creativity”)

[Anonymous]

I certainly think it can. Some people may see orthodox artists as “boxed” or limited in their scope, but personally I think there could be an unlimited depth of creativity even within their own box.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think ANYONE really thinks or creates “outside the box” – so I think creativity is “available” to all, in SOME way.

I also think creativity isn’t possible for all in many ways that are recognized as creative by others – and the creative in their own arenas shouldn’t look down on the non-creative in those arenas.

Finally, I think theological speculation is an arena that illustrates my point amazingly well.

[Anonymous]

Swimordie

Quote:

So, can creativity flourish in an orthodox paradigm? Are there examples? Obviously, this is not limited to just the mormon orthodox experience.

I must admit that I haven’t paid much attention to “Mormon literature” so my example won’t come from there at the moment however let’s consider T.S. Eliot. This fragment from the Journey of the Magi:

Quote:

‘A cold coming we had of it,

Just the worst time of the year

For the journey, and such a long journey:

The ways deep and the weather sharp,

The very dead of winter.’

And the camels galled, sore-footed, refractory,

Lying down in the melting snow.

There were times we regretted

The summer palaces on slopes, the terraces,

And the silken girls bringing sherbet.

Then the camel men cursing and grumbling

And running away, and wanting their liquor and women,

And the night-fires going out, and the lack of shelters,

And the cities hostile and the towns unfriendly

And the villages dirty and charging high prices:

A hard time we had of it.

At the end we preferred to travel all night,

Sleeping in snatches,

With the voices singing in our ears, saying

That this was all folly.

Is perhaps one of the best pieces of “religious” poetry ever written according to me (famous critic and all that I am 😆 ) . Rather than the gold and fine silk and typical romaticism of the “Wise men” we have this gritty reality which ends on a final question that has to resonate for all seekers:

Quote:

were we led all that way for

Birth or Death? There was a Birth, certainly,

We had evidence and no doubt. I had seen birth and death,

But had thought they were different; this Birth was

Hard and bitter agony for us, like Death, our death,

We returned to our places, these Kingdoms,

But no longer at ease here, in the old dispensation,

With an alien people clutching their gods.

I should be glad of another death.

Anyway there really is a point to all of this. The poem was published in 1930 and written shortly before that. T.S. Eliot converted to Anglicanism in 1927 and was VERY orthodox in his religious approach. But here we have poetry like this. Admittedly it isn’t the straightforward, glossy Christmas version many prefer to think about, it does leave us thinking.

So perhaps what I really want to say and why I really like this poem (even if the Wise Men as an entire “story” have problematic historical problems and probably didn’t get there when Jesus was just born etc. etc.) is that there is a deep testimony of Christ here while still holding in suspension other doubts and human worries.

Sorry, the old English teacher that I put to sleep back 20 years or so ago when I became a Computer Science geek seems to have slipped out. :geek:

[Anonymous]

swimordie wrote:

So, can creativity flourish in an orthodox paradigm? Are there examples? Obviously, this is not limited to just the mormon orthodox experience.

I think too much structure/orthodoxy can stifle creativity, but I don’t think the Mormon paradigm does that. It takes some creativity to accept ideas like gold plates, angels, visions, etc. so if anything, a religious/mormon culture might inspire creativity.

[Anonymous]

What an interesting question.

My husband is a successful artist he was worked across the art disciplines as an artist/ designer and in the fashion industry. I know he he has never felt mentally restricted in his creativity by his Mormon orthodox upbringing, but the restriction he has always felt has been more physical. He has been told in no uncertain terms by local church leaders that he was working in an unsavory industry. That the fashion industry was “satanic”. He has tried not to get down by this but has also at times of TBMness felt unsure and wondered whether he shouldn’t just chuck it all in and get a “proper job” ( he has been told that quite a few times too!)

I think he is feeling at peace with his career as well as himself since becoming a stage 4 mormon. He never felt like he fitted and now he doesn’t care. He is sooo glad that he didn’t listen to some of these men and give up his passion, the thing he loves more than anything( well except me?)

[Anonymous]

I posted on this topic a while back on Mormon Matters: http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/24/twilight-and-the-great-mormon-novel/” class=”bbcode_url”>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/24/twilight-and-the-great-mormon-novel/ Lest anyone get the mistaken impression from the title that I was calling Twilight the Great Mormon Novel, I was not. I was, however, talking about the constraints of being LDS on art. In general, church members are wary of artistic pursuits, especially anything that might cast the church in a bad light.

I reviewed a book called Angel Falling Softly (or something like that) published by Zarahemla about a vampire in SLC, including some lesbian/vampire encounters. Honestly, the Mormons portrayed seemed weirder than both the vampires and the lesbian (okay, she was just an experimental U of U student, barely in the book). My conclusion was that this was a book without a target audience. No one inside the church would touch it (for several reasons) and no one outside the church would get it.

My post (linked above) outlines two things Mormons are prone to that stand in the way of writing a great novel:

Quote:

Censorship. The opposite of courage (in writing) is censorship, whether it is self-censorship or by others. Having one eye on public relations creates a casualty of courage. Without courage, topics like sexuality, violence, and even the topic of censorship itself can be omitted or glossed over. This can result in a work that is toothless, gutless and crotchless.

Superficiality. Creating inauthentic or two-dimensional characters, or focusing solely on the characters or themes with weak plot development can result in a work that lacks depth. Creating depth requires having depth; in some ways, Mormons spend our lives trying to avoid depth. We know there is a “dark side” to humanity, and we stay as far away from it as we can. Writers have to write about what they know, and if you don’t know the depths of your soul, it’s hard to write about that convincingly.

[Anonymous]

Thanks, hawk, cool insight!

[Anonymous]

I recently completed a novel — been urged along by collegues for quite some time. have not actually set about trying to get it published though. The topic is basically a young gifted woman becomes a seriel murderer. I recently told someone I had not seen in years and she asked me to summarie the plot. She immediately asked if I was still active in the church.

That is a problem — if you write a novel on just about any subject you have to be realistic. If that is the case you may have to dealve into the darkness of human nature. Then people are going to suspect you are flirting with the lifestyle you are dealing with.

It’s sad but if you are a photographer you will probably have to do some nudes on the way and people are going to wonder about your values. If you write anyhthing but children’s books you may have to actually present life, and if you teach you may have to deal with uncomfortable issues. Guess you just have to ignore those who go ito judgemental mode.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

I reviewed a book called Angel Falling Softly (or something like that) published by Zarahemla about a vampire in SLC, including some lesbian/vampire encounters. Honestly, the Mormons portrayed seemed weirder than both the vampires and the lesbian (okay, she was just an experimental U of U student, barely in the book). My conclusion was that this was a book without a target audience. No one inside the church would touch it (for several reasons) and no one outside the church would get it.

Don’t be too sure. Ever hear of “reaction formation”? As I stated above I have written a novel about a young serielkiller and there was really no way not to include a sex scene between the main character and her best (female) accomplice. I have had the draft reviewed by over a dozen young women (target audience) and it was the most religious/conservative members of the group that protested that the scene was not described in more detail (I had kept it at that 1950s style of leving it up to the reader’s imagination). When I defended myself they contended that the reader wants romantic details.

I asked one of the other readers, a very outspoken bisexual woman, what she thought about the comments I received and she said in her experiences that some really “homophobic” women tend to be quite easy to seduce. Seems old Freud knew what he was talking about — if someone goes ballistic on an issue they tend to be hiding something. Bet some of those nameless women you hear mentioned in church talks that are so “heartbroken” over finding porn on their husband’s computer accounts probably did a whole lot of investigation into the sites when they discovered them.

[Anonymous]

Fiannan wrote:

I asked one of the other readers, a very outspoken bisexual woman, what she thought about the comments I received and she said in her experiences that some really “homophobic” women tend to be quite easy to seduce. Seems old Freud knew what he was talking about — if someone goes ballistic on an issue they tend to be hiding something. Bet some of those nameless women you hear mentioned in church talks that are so “heartbroken” over finding porn on their husband’s computer accounts probably did a whole lot of investigation into the sites when they discovered them.

This idea could definitely be it’s own thread. I happen to agree completely.

[Anonymous]

swimordie wrote:

Fiannan wrote:

I asked one of the other readers, a very outspoken bisexual woman, what she thought about the comments I received and she said in her experiences that some really “homophobic” women tend to be quite easy to seduce. Seems old Freud knew what he was talking about — if someone goes ballistic on an issue they tend to be hiding something. Bet some of those nameless women you hear mentioned in church talks that are so “heartbroken” over finding porn on their husband’s computer accounts probably did a whole lot of investigation into the sites when they discovered them.

This idea could definitely be it’s own thread. I happen to agree completely.

I opened up a thread on huan sexuality that is somewhat related. But seriously, the young woman I talked to who is quite “active” in sexual matters with other women said that when a conservative woman has her first sexual experience with another woman, or even has a brief relationship, she will either go out with a bunch of guys to prove she really is heterosexual or, if she is also religious, will figure she might as well self-identify with her “new lifestyle” as a means to protect her ego from the condemnation of being a “sinner”. So the irony is that a conservative Christian woman who does fall into such a temptation may be far more likely to become lesbian since she doesn’t feel right about sleeping around with a lot of guys. My ultimate take on this? Maybe if people understood sexuality better they would not be so quick to label their desires or actions and acctually fall into far more complex problems.

[Author]

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