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Another parenting question. I have two kids. One a TBM and one that wants nothing to do with the church. My TBM daughter is very futuristic, and has been since she was less than 10 years old. Makes many decisions about what to do now, based on its impact on the future. Loves to plan — It can be a very good way to live one’s life, provided one deals with the anxiety that I have noticed often accompanies a future orientation. It’s led to a lot of good decisions on her part, I believe, along with a healthy balance between short term and long term thinking.
My 13 year old son, on the other hand, lives in the here, and now. He gives very little thought for the future. Doesn’t ever plan — lives from moment to moment. Discussions about the future do not motivate him. In my view, a solely short-term perspective has a number of negative effects, such as no savings, poor health decisions, not investing in the not-urgent/important quadrant that Stephen R Covey made popular. As a parent, I feel ill-equipped to deal with his short-term thinking as I don’t seem able to influence him to consider alternatives that have a future orientation. Not impose them, but get him to even consider them.
So, I have a question — how do you encourage good decision-making in children that have a short-term orientation, and don’t think much for the future when they make decisions? One alternative is to stress the short-term benefits of adopting alternatives that address the future, but sometimes, there aren’t many short term benefits. So, that has limited value to me.
Thoughts welcome.
Your son sounds alot like my youngest son. (He’s in his 30’s now.) In reality, he was the most organized. He just didn’t want to talk about it.
Of my 3 children, he was the most flexible & in the end most prepared.
Being flexible is an underrated quality. Especially in the church.
It seems like everything has to be planned out.
Minyan Man wrote:Your son sounds alot like my youngest son. (He’s in his 30’s now.)
In reality, he was the most organized. He just didn’t want to talk about it.
Of my 3 children, he was the most flexible & in the end most prepared.
Being flexible is an underrated quality. Especially in the church.
It seems like everything has to be planned out.
Sounds a bit like my son. He never wants to share his reasons for doing anything. As if people will try to talk him out of what he is planning. He does it to everyone in our family. Maybe he is planning and we just don’t know it?
I feel he’s on a different paradigm than I am. Perhaps one that has no planning at all? Would love to understanding how that paradigm works…So, perhaps parenting happens at a “higher level” of mere support and kindness and modeling character, rather than proactive teaching or training? I am not equipped to help him live a life without plans, without futuristic thinking. But I’m not so naive to believe that a futuristic approach is the ONLY way to live one’s life.
The only insight I have for my situation is: – my son was & is a good person.
– he did well in school & sports.
– he did a foreign exchange in Argentina (for spanish)
– he had good friends. Some are still friends today.
– he was social & didn’t seem to date much in High School.
– he learned from my mistakes.
– by this time our family was completely inactive with church & had very little contact.
His mother is a planner. She asks a lot of questions that he didn’t want to answer.
For me, parenting is on the “higher level” that you talked about.
For example:
Dan is smart & had to work for his grades. He was in the National Honor Society (Senior year). Not smart enough for scholarships.
He decided on one college (Marquette) & didn’t even look at any other schools.
He got his bachelor’s degree in Business Administration with a minor in Spanish.
After college he worked with a major manufacturing corporation in the area.
At the end of 18 months, he said he was bored & wanted to get a Masters degree in Education. He felt he was losing his Spanish language skills.
He went back to Marquette as a Teaching Asst & got his Master’s degree (for free & got paid to teach).
His Professor’s helped him get into UCLA & he got a Doctorate in Spanish Literature (for free & got paid to teach).
He now teaches at Western Illinois University. (Nauvoo Stake)
How do you plan that out?
My goals all along has been to raise well adjusted children who can make their own decisions in life.
Plans can always change. Being well adjusted, is the key for me.
Hopefully, if he needs help, we talk. But, he makes the decisions.
None of my children are active in church. They made their own decision about that too. I’m ok with that.
It is great now that all my children are adults & have families of their own.
If I have questions or problems, I go to them for help now.
Does this make any sense?
I feel like sharing my husband’s and my story. My husband has A.D.D. and has always struggled with organization and planning. His father and mother tried all the tricks in the books to help him organize things and get better grades but none of them worked for him. It wasn’t until college when my husband was able to learn about himself and how he works mentally and was able to get very good grades in college and now has a well paying career. His organization still isn’t good, but he has learned how to do things in a way that helps him succeed. I also had trouble in school growing up and was bad at organization and planning. I was never able to plan things for the long term very well. I was however very good at saving money. I have started to learn how to organize now that i’ve moved out and have figured out what works for me.
What my husband and I both wish our parents had done was work with us on figuring out how we personally learn. The way they did things seemed more of a ‘we’re going to try this because studies show it works’ tactic. But they didn’t try to get us involved in figuring out what may work and not work for us. I know there was one time where my parents actually let me come up with an idea of what I thought may work for me to get better grades in school. As soon as they saw it not working, they basically lectured me on how I had failed and that they were going to tell me what tactics we were going to use from then on. I think I was about 15 or 16. It really discouraged me and made me feel like I couldn’t make my own decisions and didn’t know what was best for me. What I wish they had done was discuss with me why I think my idea didn’t work, and had me come up with ideas of what might have made my idea better and just brainstorm with me about it so that it would become a learning experience. Basically involved me in helping me learn how I learn rather than telling me what we were going to do and how my idea hadn’t worked.
In all reality, I haven’t had teenagers yet so I may not know what I’m talking about but I know that for my husband and I wish our parents had given us the opportunity to have more input and tried to learn more about how WE learned rather than only going off how other people learned and then punishing us when we still got bad grades. It would have helped us learn earlier how we ‘work’ and how to use what we had to the best of our abilities.
So just going off my own and my husband’s experiences, have you tried going to him (figuratively) rather than having him come to you? Like trying to understand and explore how he thinks more than trying to make him think like you and his older sister. We all think differently and it makes more sense to me to try and figure out how to take advantage of the way they already think rather than trying to change the way they think. Because changing your way of processing things is extremely hard. I know the parents need to be in charge but it would have really helped me have confidence in my own decisions and learn more of how I worked earlier on than I did. Hopefully I explained that well enough
I am not an expert but I do think that it would be a good idea for you to let him know you have some concerns for how he approaches some things and how that sometimes will not turn out in a way that he wants, but in the end he is going to have to learn how to do things. The harder part is letting him fail some and then the even harder part is to find a way to talk with him through one of his failures and just ask questions. Let him think. It can be good to also do the same when he makes a good choice. That is my free advice and you get what you pay for.
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Also, don’t forget that your son is 13. 13 year old boys aren’t typically great at planning for their future. I would also suggest caution in comparing siblings. We all have our path and style of learning.
Don’t compare him to his sister, even by implication. A couple of my sisters were hurt quite badly by comparisons to the rest of us (not by my parents).
Quote:He gives very little thought for the future. Doesn’t ever plan — lives from moment to moment. Discussions about the future do not motivate him. In my view, a solely short-term perspective has a number of negative effects, such as no savings, poor health decisions, not investing in the not-urgent/important quadrant that Stephen R Covey made popular. As a parent, I feel ill-equipped to deal with his short-term thinking as I don’t seem able to influence him to consider alternatives that have a future orientation. Not impose them, but get him to even consider them.
I have a 24 year old daughter who is like this. I wish I could give you some key strategy that would work. Since she graduated from high school, it has been nothing but struggle: struggle with jobs, college, dating and friendships. And most of her problems stemming from an inability to forecast. It has only been in the last year that things have really improved for her. What was the magic catalyst? I believe it is two things: she got older and she got married. Becoming a wife and potential mother just seemed to straighten some things out in her head. Plus her husband is a worrier and that has forced her to address issues that she didn’t have to address for herself. And I do believe that some of this is developmental. She just happened to be behind the curve of her peers. She will always struggle but I feel she is currently on a good path.
This was lucky for her mother and me because just as her life started sorting out, our son (who has many of the same issues and struggles as his sister) graduated from high school. So we’re starting the process all over with him. Being a boy makes it different but I’m hoping that time will do some of the same things for him that it did for her. However, I imagine his mother and I will continue to muddle and struggle with him until that happens.
And a P.S. to Always Thinking. Your post struck to me to heart because I AM that parent that you describe. I don’t know your or your husband’s parents but I hope you’ll forgive them. Parents generally love their children so much that they panic when their children struggle. Their perhaps misguided strategies comes from the very best of places. And frankly, no parent really knows what their doing anyway. They just constantly hope they don’t screw things up.
Gerald, I definitely know my parents love me and wanted what was best but I still have struggles with confidence in my own decisions. I know as parents we do what we can though
Quote:Parents generally love their children so much that they panic when their children struggle. Their perhaps misguided strategies comes from the very best of places. And frankly, no parent really knows what their doing anyway. They just constantly hope they don’t screw things up.
Just to say it, this applies (every sentence) equally to nearly all church leaders, as well – at all levels. Recognizing that has helped me greatly in seeing them as charitably as possible.
I don’t want this to derail this thread, so if anyone wants to follow-up on it, please start a new thread.
Your son sounds like a pretty typical teenage boy to me. I’d say all three of my sons (including both valedictorians and missionaries) were like that at 13 – and 14, 15, 16 and 17. I know there are some who don’t want to admit this, but what works for girls does not necessarily work for boys and vice versa. Further, what works for one child (even of the same gender) may not work for his or her sibling – recognize that they are all individuals. Good point about comparisons – bad, bad thing to do. I recognize it’s somewhat human nature and we compare ourselves to others all the time. But I also believe that’s a bad thing. (I’m preparing a talk on Uchtdorf’s two points in his Oct. GC address – starting from where you are relates to not comparing ourselves to others. The talk is for the YSA ward.)
I think in our minds we do compare our children. But I don’t compare them to each other in front of them. They are each their own set of talents and will find different ways through this life. Regarding planning — I have been through some personality assessment training, and have done some consulting with people regarding how to make their strengths work for them. Many people with Adaptability don’t like to plan. They would much rather react to their immediate circumstances. One person I knew, wanted to see a movie. Rather than check what was playing and going through all the research, he and his wife drove to the theatre and decided to see whatever was playing there. If they were early, they would stroll through the mall or wait. He was the guy I would call when I needed last minute service help in the church.
Another youth, who I saw in a personality training video, said that he thinks if he makes good choices based on the circumstances in front of him, he will automatically create a good future. Perhaps that is the model my son is on. Do what seems good/wholesome in the moment, and the future will take care of himself. Take care of the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves…etcetera…Perhaps that’s how someone with no plan can get all the way to a PhD position without a 5-10 year plan in place.
Further, planning is over-rated anyway. Where you end up is often a result of “emergent strategies” — strategies that become visible after you get into a situation and just start working….there is more than one way to skin a cat…
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