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A few weeks ago at church my wife handed me a tithing envelope and asked me to give it to a member of the bishopric. I asked her how much the check was for. She told me it was for $1000 because we needed to make up for missed payments. I said, “I’ll hold onto this, then.” We couldn’t pay the bills if we paid that much at that time. I decided I am not going to pay any more tithing this year. I told my wife not to pay any more for my income and that previous payments can be applied to her income. To make a long story short, this has been the worst year of my life and I’m tired of financial struggles.
So I’m going to tithing settlement this Sunday and reporting that I’m a part tithe payer. My question is
will I be expected to relinquish my temple recommend immediately?I’m prepared to do so. Leadership roulette. Whether you will be asked to relinquish your TR depends on your bishop. FWIW, bishops are instructed not to ask people to “make up” tithing. They are instructed that if someone who hasn’t been paying starts paying they are a full (or part) tithe payer from that day forward and there is no “making it up.”
I second the leadership roulette. I offered my recommend to the bishop but he wouldn’t take it. It’s been expired since that and i have no desire to bother with any sort of renewal.
Don’t offer it up if you don’t want to. Wait to see if your leader asks you for it, and even then, if you want to keep it, ask if you can if you keep trying to do your best, in hopes you’ll be fully able to as soon as possible. The church is filthy rich. But the principle of living tithing is something good for us. The roullette is whether the bishop thinks you’ll learn most by having the recommend taken from you, or you keep it and keep trying.
But don’t make it harder on yourself than you have to. Wait for him to take the lead…otherwise known as…him receiving inspiration for your well-being.
I think it’s ironic that the church harps on self-reliance, yet dispenses with the principle when tithing is involved. It seems a little too convenient that self-reliance is an eternal principle when it comes to protecting church resources such as fast offerings. But church leaders throw out the self-reliance principle when it conflicts with tithing — a program that provides direct financial benefits to the church. Once my bishop told me that when people can’t pay bills after tithing, they should be counseled to pay tithing and then go on church welfare until they can pay tithing and pay their bills at the same time.
This approach makes the individual dependent on the church, subject to the requirements of their Bishop in receiving tithing, and takes away their self-reliance.
So, my approach will be to pay on surplus. If I don’t have a surplus, then there is no tithing to pay. The church gets a percent of my surplus, not a percent of my total inflows, leaving me on my knees to get my bills paid by the church.
Would I relinquish my TR? That is a personal decision. If I have no intention of paying tithing going forward, I would simply turn it in as a matter of integrity. If I was behind in tithing, but felt I could make it up by the end of the year, I wouldn’t volunteer to turn it in. But if it’s at tithing settlement, and I have to give an accounting, I’d be honest about my intentions not to pay tithing now, or in the near future.
But I would leave myself open to return to full TR status in the future by NOT questioning the principle, NOT bashing the church’s wealth, and by giving, as Roy says “vague hope” about a return to full TR-holding status.
It’s not actually beneficial to the church to be hidebound about tithing for the reasons Shawn states. By wrecking someone’s finances it would jeopardize business, home, family etc leading to problems down the line causing smaller amounts to come in.
I really appreciate all who have posted here. Thank you. I am thinking about what to say to the bishop Sunday. Despite what I told my wife about tithing, we paid $1000 last Sunday. I need to register my truck tomorrow. Lo and behold, I’ll be using a credit card!
Given tithing was instituted as 10% of increase/excess there’s no “right or wrong” amount to pay. If you’re in financial difficulties and having to go into debt to cover basic necessities then it doesn’t sound like you have much “excess.” Perhaps you and your wife could spend time thinking about what tithing will be based on. There are only a few descriptions of tithing in the canon (where the church says the doctrine is found). Here’s one:
Joseph Smith Translation, Genesis 14Quote:37 And he lifted up his voice, and he blessed Abram, being the high priest, and the
keeper of the storehouse of God38 Him whom God had appointed to
receive tithes for the poor. 39 Wherefore, Abram
paid unto him tithesof all that he had, of all the riches which he possessed, which God had given him more than that which he had need.
(Emphasis added)
So Abraham paid tithes on the “more than he had need” part of his riches. Maybe you actually are a full tithe payer.
The definition of tithing at church is so incredibly vague. From LDS.org: The First Presidency gave the following definition of tithing: “The simplest statement we know of is the statement of the Lord himself, namely, that the members of the Church should pay ‘one-tenth of all their interest annually,’ which is understood to mean income. No one is justified in making any other statement than this” (First Presidency letter, 19 Mar. 1970).
It’s between you and the Lord. Sounds like it might help if you and your wife need to decide what the statement above means to you, but tithing in my opinion should not create incredible hardship. I really don’t even like the concept of tithing settlement and feel for the bishops having to do it and for all of us needing to go. It should be sufficient to say you are a full tithe payer in a temple recommend interview based on what your understanding of tithing is to how the spirit speaks to you when pondering the statement above.
All the junk people say about getting more blessings by paying on your gross are totally unfounded.
NewLight wrote:All the junk people say about getting more blessings by paying on your gross are totally unfounded.
agree…if it was founded…it would mean the more you pay, the more blessings you get.:think: That’s a problem.Hi Shawn, Boy if there is one thing I have learned this past year as I have been experiencing my “faith journey” is that many paradigms have been challenged and changed for the better. I love the way Steven Covey explains paradigms the best.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZUKn-Ngzko With that being said, my view on tithing has shifted too. I think what you decided to pay on your increase is very personal. I have listened to arguments over gross vs net on what interest or increase is, etc, etc. This is a personal idea that you and your wife need to feel right about. I don’t even think most bishops would really require any involved explanation.Awakening wrote:Hi Shawn,
Boy if there is one thing I have learned this past year as I have been experiencing my “faith journey” is that many paradigms have been challenged and changed for the better. I love the way Steven Covey explains paradigms the best.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZUKn-Ngzko With that being said, my view on tithing has shifted too. I think what you decided to pay on your increase is very personal. I have listened to arguments over gross vs net on what interest or increase is, etc, etc. This is a personal idea that you and your wife need to feel right about. I don’t even think most bishops would really require any involved explanation.The church handbook of instructions does not give any more detail than “increase”. When I was in bishopric’s I was always told that it was up to the individual to decide. I have read some interesting posts about this and if you jump out of the American centric view – there MUST be more flexibility. From what I understand, some scandanvian countries have lots of things socialized. So a bunch of things are fully covered by the government, but you pay for it out of your paycheck. Your take home pay may only be like 30% of gross – or less. So if you asked that person to give 10% of gross, they are left with 10-20% of discretionary income after taxes and tithing.
Good luck, Shawn. Be aware that whether he takes your recommend or not he IS likely to ask you if you’ll commit to paying a full tithe going forward. Again, you’ll need to decide how you define a “full tithe” and whether or not you’re willing to do that. If you are not willing, the chance of losing the recommend is much higher.
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