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This was a great article about Evangelicals and persecution complex. To me, this recent push for Religious Freedom is totally persecution complex and doomsaying about outlandish consequences for our anti-gay stances. The article points out why right-wing religions are prone to persecution complex: 1 – Israelites were the kings of casting themselves as victims.
2 – It makes us feel like we are similar to a suffering savior.
The article also cites the biggest problems with persecution complex:
1 – Often these “persecutions” are because we hit first.
2 – It reinforces blind spots because we don’t listen to those we’ve hurt.
3 – It’s self-perpetuating forever.
4 – We start seeing it where it doesn’t exist.
Quote:When we cultivate the sense that we have been wronged, we can’t see the wrong that we ourselves are doing. We also give up our power to make things better. If people keep being mean to us through no fault of our own, then we’re helpless as well as victims, at least in our own minds. You can’t fix what you can’t see.
In the case of Christianity, the theology of persecution serves to give the faithful hope. It inspires persistence in the face of hardship, including the many hardships that life brings on all of us through no fault of our own. But it has also blinded generations of believers to the possibility that sometimes the hardships they face are due not to their faith or evildoers hating Jesus, but to the fact that they hit first. And sometimes the bewildering hostility they perceive may simply be something that the theology of persecution set them up to expect, whether it is there or not.
I don’t think the “persecution complex” is specific to certain religious groups. Everyone loves to claim the “victim”, even when they’re downright bullying everyone else. I can think of quite a few political movements who fit this bill, LGBT activists included. No time right now for a detailed comment, but regarding LGBTQ+ activists: It is not a “complex” (as properly defined) when the persecution is real. Activists can go overboard, of course, but it isn’t a complex.
Old Timer wrote:
No time right now for a detailed comment, but regarding LGBTQ+ activists:It is not a “complex” (as properly defined) when the persecution is real. Activists can go overboard, of course, but it isn’t a complex.
I agree, there is a big difference from being persecuted, and actively seeking offense and injustice.
Persecution is an interesting concept. Am I, as a heterodox believer, persecuted at church? Certainly not actively. Yet, I am made to feel that my perspective is lesser, deficient, corrupt, and twisted. In a way, StayLDS functions as a support group for people with similar difficulties. If you asked most members if congregants that believe in a non-historical BoM are persecuted, you would probably find staunch denials. However, persecution can manifest in subtle ways. I can certainly empathize with someone that was mistreated on their way out of the church and still has lingering bitterness towards the organization. These people may even see offense and injustice in church actions that most TBM’s might not understand to be offensive. dande48 wrote:
there is a big difference from being persecuted, and actively seeking offense and injustice.
I was sitting and watching the TV with my Mom when the church came out with the policy of exclusion. My mom did not understand what all the fuss was about. She said something to the effect of “the church is just reemphasizing the doctrine that has always been.”
I hade to explain it to her. “Mom, imagine that I am gay and married to a wonderful man that makes me very happy. Imagine that I also maintain a delicate connection to the church. My partner and I have adopted some children (your grandchildren) and have decided to honor our heritage and upbringing by raising them in the church. This new policy excommunicates me and prevents my children from being baptized until they are 18 and they specifically repudiate our immediate family structure. How might you feel knowing that, as far as the church is concerned, you have probably just lost me and my children?”
The interesting thing is that church members also seem to feel persecuted for the stand that they have taken on the issue.
OTOH, the church and its members have faced legitimate persecution for a long time. It may take many generations for the “community trauma” to heal.
The gay-rights lobby needs to rein in its lunatic fringe – they have some very dangerous, nasty and violent colleagues. I do not think their attacks on the LDS actually help gay people in the church much, nor do they help those who support them. There are times when direct action is probably necessary, but I don’t think it is helpful at all here.
SamBee wrote:
The gay-rights lobby needs to rein in its lunatic fringe – they have some very dangerous, nasty and violent colleagues.I do not think their attacks on the LDS actually help gay people in the church much, nor do they help those who support them. There are times when direct action is probably necessary, but I don’t think it is helpful at all here.
I agree that there are probably people on the fringes that are not helping the cause. However, since there is no hierarchy that activists are beholden to, not a whole lot can be done to “rein” them in.
In short, I do not believe that anybody here believes that the gay community has not been systematically persecuted. Let us please not play the “both sides share the blame” game. We can disagree with tactics but lets not confuse tactics with the cause. I do not believe that the cause of the LGBTQ community (which I understand to be equality) and the cause of the Anti-gay society to be equally just.
Perhaps to move this to a less hot button issue… North Korea seems to have a persecution complex. It does seem to be facing persecution in the form of increasing sanctions and disrespect on the world stage (the Sony movie was very disrespectful and is a good example). NK threatens the world and primarily the US in a bid to get attention and ultimately respect and a seat at the table. These threats (and the increasing power to back them up) are met with increasing levels of “persecution.”
Thoughts?
Roy wrote:
I do not believe that the cause of the LGBTQ community (which I understand to be equality) and the cause of the Anti-gay society to be equally just.
I wasn’t saying they aren’t just. I’m all for equality; the LGBT community should have equality before the law, equal opportunities in housing, education, employment, should be treated with kindness, and live without fear of harassment or physical violence. That is all well and good; There are very few “Anti-gays”, who do not agree with such sentiments. I’d even be willing to say, the LGBT and activists are in the majority, and in a definite position of power and influence (socially, if not politically). You’re plenty likely to get ostracized, rejected, bullied, and quite possibly have legal action taken against you for holding non-conformist views on homosexuality. No matter what side of the spectrum you’re on, whether you’re white, black, male, female, gay, or straight… I hate bullies.
Roy wrote:
Perhaps to move this to a less hot button issue…North Korea seems to have a persecution complex. It does seem to be facing persecution in the form of increasing sanctions and disrespect on the world stage (the Sony movie was very disrespectful and is a good example). NK threatens the world and primarily the US in a bid to get attention and ultimately respect and a seat at the table. These threats (and the increasing power to back them up) are met with increasing levels of “persecution.”
Thoughts?
Much safer topic! I honestly don’t think so. Kim Jong Un, like Donald Trump, is 100x smarter than he lets on (“Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak”). A complex is an underlying pattern of thoughts and behaviors, with a central underlying theme. You’re dealing with a completely different theme. Most of North Korea’s population is kept hungry and in the dark, but the people are told “it is much worse elsewhere.” What little humanitarian aid comes in, comes in through “Kim Jong Un’s diplomatic prowess and millitary might”. All Kim wants is to maintain power for himself and his dynasty. He only plays the victim card as justification for acceleration of his nuclear program and rejection of western ideology. It’s meant to instill hate among his people, and always comes with promises of strength and triumph. Does this
propoganda video of New York City in flames (fittingly set to the tune “We are the World”)Roy wrote:
Perhaps to move this to a less hot button issue…North Korea seems to have a persecution complex. It does seem to be facing persecution in the form of increasing sanctions and disrespect on the world stage (the Sony movie was very disrespectful and is a good example). NK threatens the world and primarily the US in a bid to get attention and ultimately respect and a seat at the table. These threats (and the increasing power to back them up) are met with increasing levels of “persecution.”
Thoughts?
Needless to say, there will be those out there who take an opposite view of this matter to the US mainstream, namely that:
* NK vs USA is a David vs Goliath battle, and that plucky little NK is fighting against a big bad wolf.
* The USA wants to grab something or other in NK.
* That the USA is muscling in on China’s ally.
* That NK is only responding to US aggression.
* That NK is fighting capitalism.
These are not my views, but I don’t doubt some people hold them.
We are sympathetic social beings. A martyr can further a cause or idea above what living leaders can do, persecuted groups can get support, pictures of children or even vulnerable animals can raise millions of dollars. The persecution complex plays on these sentiments.
It’s how a minority group can get a voice. I agree with others who have said it is not a religious thing. It’s a human thing.
hawkgrrrl wrote:
1 – Israelites were the kings of casting themselves as victims.2 – It makes us feel like we are similar to a suffering savior.
It does seem to be written into scripture, and therefore retold in church and easy to develop a bias at church based on the scriptures.
Religion is filled with stories and spiritual teachings to engage our emotions and souls, more than just cold hard unbiased facts. It can be used to turn a religion of love into hateful actions if it gets out of balance.
Roy wrote:
Perhaps to move this to a less hot button issue…North Korea …
😆
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