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Ann wrote:mom3 wrote:
It’s messy, ugly, and just as un-clarified as ever but some of us ladies just aren’t as affected by it.
I do need the reminder that some women don’t care. So I appreciate the reminder and your gentle approach, even if I can’t emulate it. It really does take all sorts.
What’s your take on the girl in the class, meek and lowly, willing to submit to what she considers the inevitable? If that were my daughter, I’d be sad. I would see her as I see myself at that age – whittling away at my sense of self until I fit in the doctrinal box. It was just a couple of years ago that I sprang from it.
And, by the way, I’m also sad for my daughter. As she sits there, her trust and respect for her leaders is being whittled down, too. The ties that bind her to this particular church (not to God) are weakening.
What I’m saying is that both girls are losing.
[Mini-Moderator note: After mom3 responds, I’ll probably lock the thread – maybe reopen it if and when there are conversations to share.]
I’m in favor of leaving the thread open and letting it run its course. Locking it may frustrate people that we are sending the message that in order to stayLDS you can’t talk about this issue.
I feel the discussion is respectful in tone…even if it is repetitive or a bit wandering around in direction.
How do you all feel about leaving it open vs locking it to be productive to the forum’s mission?
Ann…by the way…thanks for taking to lead on moderating it … I don’t want to undermine your choice and will support you if you feel it is done. I just wanted you to know my feeling as one vote here on this. What do others say?
I added an admin note, prior to reading this. I don’t want to lock it, and I absolutely don’t want it deleted, but we can’t let it become a thread wheere people are insulted like DJ was.
It would be easy to overlook Dax’s comment and not realize how harshly it described DJ, but it did. That can’t be allowed here.
Also, I meant what I said about it being perfectly fine to talk about polygamy here – but, privately, I do want to ask that we try HARD whenever it is discussed to remember our mission and not insist that D&C 132 be removed or that every member stop thinking it might be part of Heaven. We can’t position total institutional rejection as the only solution that will allow for peace. Personally, I wouldn’t complain one bit if both of those things happened, but we can’t hold it as an expectation and have any hope of any degree of peace – which is our central mission here.
That is my two cents worth.
I replied since Ann mentioned it. I don’t know if it will get locked or not. I did try to mention something, especially as a moderator, that I try to remember: Everyone has their issues. I would think especially as moderators it would help us as we watch threads. The list of deep personal agonizing issues is why we are here, and if our own personal issue comes up maybe we should poke another mod to watch over a thread and keep things status positive.
Marginalizing people is my main issue. I have this determined belief in a benevolent God Who Weeps and a Jesus Christ who meant “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Mine knows no boundaries. It may appear to be LGBT focused, but it’s not, divorced people sit by me, cigarette wreaking sit by me, excommunicated and still wanting to attend sit by me. I take 3 Nephi 18 seriously. Stubbornly I expect my church to, too. I just can’t get them on board fast enough. I know Dieter is doing his best, too, but it is a slow go.
I mention this because it’s my hot button, on those topics I need someone to splash some water on me and remind me to be what I wish people would be.
Anyway – DJ – thank you for chiming in. Ann thanks for mini-moderating. And thanks for everyone letting the conversation roll. I think it is important and it gives us good practice for when we meet our tough issues face to face.
mom3 wrote:I did try to mention something, especially as a moderator, that I try to remember: Everyone has their issues. I would think especially as moderators it would help us as we watch threads. The list of deep personal agonizing issues is why we are here, and if our own personal issue comes up maybe we should poke another mod to watch over a thread and keep things status positive.
I agree and I really loved how you stated that in the thread. Not everyone needs to be incensed about my issue and that is ok. OTOH I believe it is helpful to understand each other and if we are doing something that is inadvertently causing offense that we stop doing that thing. The united states has slowly moved towards being more equal and tolerant as we have allowed more voices to enter the conversation. It is a lumbering and messy process but it does show progress.
I’m going to put this here instead burrowing even deeper into private messages. I’ve been pretty upset today because I honestly don’t understand where my “vitriol” was. I actually – and this goes to show that I am reallymissing something here – thought I was making efforts to defend DJ and get the conversation back to the delightful subject of polygamy instead of working women being marginalized and Dax’s sideswipes. I came back with short-length sentences just to make my point which is that polygamy gets taught by people other than the Q15.
I will lock it.
DJ, I am sorry. I’ll go back and look at our PM and see if I understood you correctly. I truly don’t have anger towards you.
***Okay – wait a minute. I just read more carefully. I’ll leave the thread open.
Thank you Ann – I don’t get the feeling any of us want it closed. Its a conversation that does need to happen, we just need to keep it as a conversation because later on people who weren’t here will read it and they won’t have the full understanding of the players and voices on the page. Old-Timer wrote:Also, I meant what I said about it being perfectly fine to talk about polygamy here – but, privately, I do want to ask that we try HARD whenever it is discussed to remember our mission and not insist that D&C 132 be removed or that every member stop thinking it might be part of Heaven. We can’t position total institutional rejection as the only solution that will allow for peace. Personally, I wouldn’t complain one bit if both of those things happened, but we can’t hold it as an expectation and have any hope of any degree of peace – which is our central mission here.
I agree. Do they realize how
very littlethey would have to have said to encourage people like me? It didn’t need to be much, but it has been virtually nothing. There are many things they could do short of removing it that would help. I didn’t see any of this as attacking DJ. That’s just my view. D&C 132 is an affront to women. Anyone who has actually read it can plainly see that. It’s really difficult to be told that the church doesn’t teach it so long as the sealing ceremony is directly from D&C 132. I’m fine with leaving it open, I’m just done going there. As I said, I have said my piece, I have contributed my two cents, and I don’t intend to rehash that here or there. Suffice it to say I disagree with the viewpoint of a couple posters in the thread. Ann, not going back to reread the thread, there was one of those “too many quotes” messages and in editing to make the post work I can see that it is possible that it may have looked as though I was addressing you specifically when that was not the intent. Again, without going back and rereading and trying to recollect my thoughts at the time, the referenced vitriol was not from you, but another poster (or two) whose quotes were edited out. I have been known to scold people about misquoting and misrepresenting, but it appears that I may have been guilty of that in this instance and I apologize.
One of the things I love about this forum is that personal attacks are not tolerated. I do understand how some might not have seen one or two of the comments as direct attacks against me, but I do see it differently and might assert that the attacks could be veiled. I am generally pretty thick skinned, but I am sometimes vulnerable.
I’m relieved, and hope things smooth out. :thumbup: Quote:I am generally pretty thick skinned, but I am sometimes vulnerable.
Good reminder. And I’m sure that describes us all.
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