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This is an article that I’ve seen pop up in my facebook feed. I’m sharing it here for the benefit of others. Revealing Joseph Smith’s (Well-Known) Polygamy Doesn’t Address the LDS Church’s Bigger ProblemSome sections of the article reminded me of the points Ray was making in his thread
Historical PerspectiveGood article…thanks for linking. Good article; lousy comment section (from both sides of the issue). Seriously, skip the comment section. It’s like the Salt Lake Tribune: extremists on each side flinging dung at each other.
Thanks for sharing, Nibbler. I will point out that the essays are not written by one historian, it is a group effort, and I will also point out that the highest levels of church leadership are involved with them and approve them before they are published. That could, of course, explain why they don’t go as far as we might think they could or should. Honestly I don’t think we can expect the church to ever come out and say that Joseph was wrong, polygamy was wrong, the priesthood ban was wrong (although they came close on that one), etc. – it would be too damaging and would be akin to admitting the church is not true. It’s just not going to happen – and probably shouldn’t. I didn’t even see the comments section. If it’s as bad as you say it sounds like thatis the real problem. Our inability or unwillingness to come back together. It’s just that every article in a newspaper or on a blog that is widely known and read (like hers) automatically brings out the extremists: those who ridicule and actually are classic anti-Mormon (with the same old venom) vs. those who feel it their duty to defend against attack (with the same old nonsense). I don’t want to detract from the post, which is good, by highlighting the comment section. It just saddens me – and, to be clear, the stupid and attack-oriented, defensive nonsense saddens me more than the stupid and attack-oriented, offensive venom. Sometimes, we are our own worst enemy.
So true. I do like this site for its signal to noise ratio (hey – I am an engineer) I couldn’t help thinking while reading her piece of the scholars and others that have been damaged and lost over the last forty years. I imagine it’s cold comfort for them to see their work vindicated. I don’t mean to sound crass when I say this, but, as a historian by nature, pioneers almost always suffer in ways that make future settlers more comfortable. For some it is cold comfort; for some it is very comforting and validating. I might turn it around and say that perhaps many of my ancestors find cold comfort in how I and others treat what they suffered so greatly to provide – to NOT have their efforts vindicated in some ways and actually to have their faith and their lives disparaged to a degree.
What I’m saying is that we only can deal with our own lives and our own experiences with any degree of certainty – and even that is sketchy. For many, it might not be cold comfort; rather, it might be glorious confirmation and validation. We just don’t know what it is for anyone else unless they tell us, and it is our responsibility to listen and try to understand and respect them whenever they do tell us,no matter what they tell us.
nibbler wrote:This is an article that I’ve seen pop up in my facebook feed. I’m sharing it here for the benefit of others.
Revealing Joseph Smith’s (Well-Known) Polygamy Doesn’t Address the LDS Church’s Bigger ProblemSome sections of the article reminded me of the points Ray was making in his thread
Historical PerspectiveI was
justabout to attach this to the “Historical Perspective” thread, so I’m really glad you gave it its own. (I didn’t read the comments.)
There is an old saying, “Catholics say the pope is infallible but don’t really believe it; Mormons say the prophet is fallible but don’t really believe it.” Pres Uchtdorf said in Oct 2013
And, to be perfectly frank, there have been times when members or leaders in the Church have simply made mistakes. There may have been things said or done that were not in harmony with our values, principles, or doctrine.
I suppose the Church would be perfect only if it were run by perfect beings. God is perfect, and His doctrine is pure. But He works through us—His imperfect children—and imperfect people make mistakes.
In the title page of the Book of Mormon we read, “And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ.”
This is the way it has always been and will be until the perfect day when Christ Himself reigns personally upon the earth. (“Come, Join with Us”, Dieter F. Uchtdorf, Oct 2013)
If the membership at large were more realistic in their expectations of their leaders, less would have their faith shaken when leader inevitably disappoints us.
What we may be seeing is the church’s effort to inoculate against unsavory facts of church history. And some are running a fever. And some may not survive it.
Some think that the church is going too slow. I am willing to give our leaders the benefit of the doubt and trust God to save us all.
Old-Timer wrote:I don’t mean to sound crass when I say this, but, as a historian by nature, pioneers almost always suffer in ways that make future settlers more comfortable. For some it is cold comfort; for some it is very comforting and validating.
I might turn it around and say that perhaps many of my ancestors find cold comfort in how I and others treat what they suffered so greatly to provide – to NOT have their efforts vindicated in some ways and actually to have their faith and their lives disparaged to a degree.
What I’m saying is that we only can deal with our own lives and our own experiences with any degree of certainty – and even that is sketchy. For many, it might not be cold comfort; rather, it might be glorious confirmation and validation. We just don’t know what it is for anyone else unless they tell us, and it is our responsibility to listen and try to understand and respect them whenever they do tell us,no matter what they tell us.
Agreed but what I was specifically thinking of was a conversation at had at a Mormon History Association meeting with a scholar and friend of someone that did groundbreaking work back in the 70’s. Because of it the church changed it’s position but in the interim he left the church because of the way he was treated by his local and general church authorities. All unnecessary.
richalger wrote:Pres Uchtdorf said in Oct 2013
And, to be perfectly frank, there have been times when members or leaders in the Church have simply made mistakes. There may have been things said or done that were not in harmony with our values, principles, or doctrine.
I suppose the Church would be perfect only if it were run by perfect beings. God is perfect, and His doctrine is pure. But He works through us—His imperfect children—and imperfect people make mistakes.
….
What we may be seeing is the church’s effort to inoculate against unsavory facts of church history. And some are running a fever. And some may not survive it. Some think that the church is going too slow. I am willing to give our leaders the benefit of the doubt and trust God to save us all.
I don’t understand how the
wonderfulElder Uchtdorf quote helps in this situation, since there is no implication in the essay that polygamy was a mistake, or even an experiment. Flu shots, vaccines, etc., are custom creations. If the losses are too high with this first batch, maybe they need to formulate it differently next go-around/essay revision.
Quote:All unnecessary.
Yes – but also all unavoidable. Life sucks at times, and it sucks more for some than for others. I hope I understand why in the next round, assuming there is a next round. I certainly don’t understand why at this point – at least not in any way other than biologically.
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