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I had honestly never heard of this until just a moment ago, when I was talking to my roommate. She said that for Family Home Evening in our ward (I didn’t go tonight), there were some doctrinal discussions involving polygamy in the Celestial Kingdom. She said she felt uncomfortable and left early. When she said this, I stopped her and asked if this was true- I had never, ever heard this before! She said yes, because there wouldn’t be enough men in the Celestial Kingdom for all the women. Hearing this disappointed me greatly. I may sound childish and selfish saying this, but I don’t want to share my husband! I love the idea of having just one husband or just one wife (I mean hey, if polygamy is your thing, then go for it. I’m not judging- it’s just not what I want). I hate the idea that I might have to be in a polygamist family if I make it to the Celestial Kingdom. Honestly, learning this really just crushed my hopes and dreams for what I thought the Celestial Kingdom would be like.
I probably don’t know everything about this, and I obviously don’t completely understand this concept. Have any of you ever heard this? Do you know how it’s going to work? What are your thoughts on this?
This supports what I tried to say in another posting: http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6091 We shouldn’t be afraid to raise our hand & say I don’t agree with your statement.
Or what is your source for your statement?
The more we do that, we will find there are others that feel or believe the same way.
Do not let these opportunities pass in silence. It can be done in a constructive & positive way.
In some cases they may be able to support their position & we learn something new.
On this topic, I believe they are wrong.
I don’t know, and I am fine with anything that respects righteous individuals’ desires. For me? Nope, not a chance in my mind or heart at this point.
For others – especially those who have loved more than one person passionately and deeply (both men AND women)? I’m okay with that, if that is what they all want.
Fwiw, it helps that I don’t believe sexual activity will be part of the next life, so that eliminates much of the ickiness factor for me when it comes to the possibility of some people being “polygamous” in the next life. I just don’t want it and won’t participate, based on how I feel right now, even if there is no sexual component to marriage then.
I’m not buying it on several levels. Sure sounds like wishful thinking from so-called righteous men that they are going to be in such a minority that they can have their pick of the ladeez. Yeah right. Dream on, pervs. Just A Girl wrote:I had honestly never heard of this until just a moment ago, when I was talking to my roommate. She said that for Family Home Evening in our ward (I didn’t go tonight), there were some doctrinal discussions involving polygamy in the Celestial Kingdom. She said she felt uncomfortable and left early.
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I probably don’t know everything about this, and I obviously don’t completely understand this concept. Have any of you ever heard this? Do you know how it’s going to work? What are your thoughts on this?
I’m curious to know what the FHE discussion was.
I think that eternity will take care of itself. I really don’t know what it’ll be like.
I don’t think that in fifty years Section 132 will look the way it does now. I don’t think the church will be portraying 1800’s polygamy as the express will of God. When that happens, celestial kingdom polygamy (the way it’s taught now) will fade away, too.
And thank heaven for the internet. A critical mass of Mormon women are finally able to share their thoughts freely. Instead of feeling guilty that I’m not “righteous enough” to accept polygamy, I can take courage from others and teach my daughters differently than I was taught. (My mother’s explanation, looking back on it now, was pitiful. But I was a trusting little girl who just swallowed it.)
I think we can start to lessen the grip of our polygamy doctrine without unnecessarily “piling on” our polygamous ancestors. But I hope it doesn’t take fifty years because it will be too late for many.
Where I have settled on this matter is that I don’t hear any leader telling me that I must believe it was of God. So I will leave the door open that when God himself tells me it must be, then so be it. I do think there is a point where I am not supposed to be telling God what to do. But for now I feel it is OK for me to feel disgusted at the practice and I want no part of it in this life nor in the next. I defies morality that I have been taught in church in so many ways. To me it also deprives men of growth and having to work through the challenges of a marriage – and I can tell you I have had some. But those are some of the challenges have been the most growth creating challenges I have had.
There are SO many things that do sing to my heart that I know I should be doing (loving my fellow man) that once I am perfect in those, then I can be asking God to help me see how this is important. Until then I see it as a huge boulder of mistake by some men put in my path to make me want to leave the church. I am deciding to walk around that boulder and call it like I see it.
hawkgrrrl wrote:I’m not buying it on several levels. Sure sounds like wishful thinking from so-called righteous men that they are going to be in such a minority that they can have their pick of the ladeez. Yeah right. Dream on, pervs.
Made me laugh out loud at work
😆 I’m not buying it either and I’m glad its not preached from the pulpit (though sounds like its being taught in FHE which is kind of weird). If anyone brings it up in class I will be glad to offer an alternative viewpoint (in a nice way) to what may be presented as doctrine.
No worries Just A Girl, you don’t have to live it in this life or accept it if you don’t want to. As I have no idea if God exists or what the next life will be like if there is one, I’m not worried about it.
-SBRed
I’m pretty much where LH is. It’s not a TR question, it’s not mentioned in the temple ceremonies, it’s not in the AofF, it’s not preached from the GC pulpit. I don’t like the whole idea and don’t believe it was ever an earthly commandment. When people make jokes about me having more than one wife because I’m Mormon, I always shoot back that one is plenty and I can’t keep up with everything she wants me to do. In truth we know very little about the afterlife and I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it. I suppose when I get to whatever kingdom I am assigned to I will likely have a clearer understanding of it and will likely have a different point of view. For now I’m not worried about it and have better things to be concerned with (like loving my neighbor). I will make one comment that I only come to grips with lately. That is that this whole topic seems to be even more difficult for the sisters to hear. Just reverse it and think “Brethren, when you die your wife must take on another husband in order for the 2 of you to make it to the top.” That does feel a bit different. So sisters, recognize that not all men will even realize how it feels for you to hear of this. Something tells me that heaven isn’t going to be as different as we think. Polygamists? Oh, those guys. Yeah, they’re off in their compound someplace. Buncha weirdos. I hear the ATF (alcohol, tobacco, and fireswords) is raiding them sometime soon. nibbler wrote:Something tells me that heaven isn’t going to be as different as we think. Polygamists? Oh, those guys. Yeah, they’re off in their compound someplace. Buncha weirdos. I hear the ATF (alcohol, tobacco, and fireswords) is raiding them sometime soon.
GASP! Say it isn’t so. Bureaucracy in heaven? I have a hard enough time on earth differentiating between hell and bureaucracy because they seem about the same for me (I work in a VERY large corporation – no, not the church, I REALLY big organization).Just A Girl wrote:I had honestly never heard of this until just a moment ago, when I was talking to my roommate. She said that for Family Home Evening in our ward (I didn’t go tonight), there were some doctrinal discussions involving polygamy in the Celestial Kingdom. She said she felt uncomfortable and left early.
When she said this, I stopped her and asked if this was true- I had never, ever heard this before! She said yes, because there wouldn’t be enough men in the Celestial Kingdom for all the women. Hearing this disappointed me greatly. I may sound childish and selfish saying this, but I don’t want to share my husband! I love the idea of having just one husband or just one wife (I mean hey, if polygamy is your thing, then go for it. I’m not judging- it’s just not what I want). I hate the idea that I might have to be in a polygamist family if I make it to the Celestial Kingdom. Honestly, learning this really just crushed my hopes and dreams for what I thought the Celestial Kingdom would be like.
I probably don’t know everything about this, and I obviously don’t completely understand this concept. Have any of you ever heard this? Do you know how it’s going to work? What are your thoughts on this?
The idea that PM will be required because of an excess of women doesn’t make sense. There were times during the Utah period when it was difficult to find a girl of marrying age because polygamy made them so scarce. Also – I have NEVER heard this as an official, doctrinal justification for polygamy. I have only ever heard it as hear-say, speculation, and folklore.
Also, I really have no problem with PM
existingin the CK. If John wants to have 1000 wives and even up the men/women ratio that is fine with me – I will happily live with my one wife (especially because I know it would devastate her to live PM. How could I ever be happy bringing her such pain?) The real issue for me is whether or not PM will be requiredas a prerequisite for entering the kingdom (like baptism or priesthood ordination). The official church position on this question is that we don’t know.
Quote:Avoid Speculation. Do not speculate about whether plural marriage is a requirement for the Celestial Kingdom. We have no knowledge that Plural Marriage will be a requirement for exaltation
This comes from the 2013 Teachers Manual for Seminary.
We had a discussion about it here:
http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5120&hilit=polygamy+required One of the first “baby steps” that I foresee the church making in this regard will be to announce that PM in the CK will be strictly optional. (As in – “CK inhabitants may choose to abstain” not “You are free to choose… to go to a lower kingdom.
😈 )LookingHard wrote:I will make one comment that I only come to grips with lately. That is that this whole topic seems to be even more difficult for the sisters to hear. Just reverse it and think “Brethren, when you die your wife must take on another husband in order for the 2 of you to make it to the top.” That does feel a bit different. So sisters, recognize that not all men will even realize how it feels for you to hear of this.
Oh, believe me, LH, I am very aware that many men in the church lack empathy for women.I have heard it taught also, as a speculative teaching. I think it helps some people make sense of why it is in our D&C, and taught by early prophets in this dispensation, and is probably easier for them to think…it will be something in the next life we don’t understand rather than face the possible fact that prophets maybe just were wrong and sexist. When I heard Pres Hinckley say:
Quote:“Beyond the wonderful and descriptive words found in sections 76 and 137 [D&C 76; D&C 137] we know relatively little concerning the celestial kingdom and those who will be there. At least some of the rules of eligibility for acceptance into that kingdom are clearly set forth, but other than that, we are given little understanding.”
…it makes me think that applies to a lot of folklore, speculative teachings in our religion.
In my opinion, we know very little about the next life and how it works, and sometimes try to frame things in ways that make sense to us now…when, like Ray said, it may be so different that many of these things are just not issues then.
But…since I have no other frame of reference now…I categorically reject the idea of polygamy…in any way…and it is certainly not a heaven I choose to believe in because it doesn’t feel right to me. It brings no peace or good feelings to my daughters (who are college age), so I simply tell them…you don’t have to believe it, no matter what others say in FHE or church or anywhere else. It is simply not doctrine.
I say…stick with the prophet’s quote…we know very little about the next life. That gives you a LOT of wiggle room on how you choose to believe in it.
hawkgrrrl wrote:LookingHard wrote:I will make one comment that I only come to grips with lately. That is that this whole topic seems to be even more difficult for the sisters to hear. Just reverse it and think “Brethren, when you die your wife must take on another husband in order for the 2 of you to make it to the top.” That does feel a bit different. So sisters, recognize that not all men will even realize how it feels for you to hear of this.
Oh, believe me, LH, I am very aware that many men in the church lack empathy for women.
I have seen it also. I am telling everyone that I am a feminist and I get strange looks. I ask, “where do you want women to be treated differently” and they usually rattle off a few minor items and I usually can agree with them on most. Then I ask some of what I think are the bigger questions of equality and they squirm when I put it in terms of their daughters or granddaughters bein g less than. I leave it with “that is what I consider at least MY feminism is about”You go girl!
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