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Since my original FC I will NEVER go into any details about my life again with my Bishop. It wasn’t because of something he said, it was because he showed absolutely NO empathy, compassion or understanding. If I need to talk to anyone about
what I’m going through in life, I have friends who know me & I know them. With my Bishop or any church authority it is only
the basics. yes or no or I’m uncomfortable talking about it. Anything more serious, I go to a professional. (Which currently
is rare.)
Roy wrote:
So, considering that my children are probably going to be receiving messages about porn in their church classes fairly soon, DW and I have been discussing how to teach the subject in our own home.
Two nights ago DW and I met with 11 yr old DS on this subject. DW wanted to be present but I asked her to let me do the talking.
I began by telling Roy Jr. that I wanted to talk about relationships. I did date around some and met some really neat young women that I was attracted to and had interest in. I eventually met his mother and we eventually fell in love and decided to get married and have a family. One of the more fulfilling tasks in life is to commit your self to a partner and build a life together. When I was his age and older I wondered and worried if I would ever find someone that would want me and love me romantically. I can tell him that this will happen for him when the time is right. He has many wonderful qualities that will make him attractive as a potential partner and he can afford to take his time and choose someone with the best chance of forming a happy union long term. When DW and I were married we were both 25. At 25, we both felt prepared and ready to start a family together.
I let him know that to make a baby a man and a woman take off their clothes and the man puts his penis inside the woman’s vagina and the penis releases sperm. This is how the sperm gets in close proximity to the egg. DS had known the basic mechanics of making a baby through the comination of sperm and an egg but it had not previously come up how the sperm got there. This is part of marriage and being a Mom and a Dad.
Fairly soon the body of Roy Jr. would start to go through some changes during puberty. His school had done a decent job of covering the physical body changes of puberty. In addition, the hormones related to puberty would start to make him interested in girls to prepare him for being a husband and father some day. In some ways his body will be that of a man. I used his sister as an example. At 13, she now has noticeable breasts and is a woman in that respect. However, she is still a minor and is far from ready to start her own family. These changes are slow and gradual and happen for different people at different times. In preparation, for a eventual roles as husband and father his body will start to make him interested in young women both romantically and sexually.
This is where we talked about pornography. Roy Jr. said that he did not know what pornography was. He knew biography and pictograph. I praised him and said that was exactly right. “Graphy” means a book or story. In this case “Porno” means pictures of naked people or sometimes people having sex that is designed to sexually excite the viewer. DS asked why people would want to look at that and I told him that it is because of those hormones that help prepare us to form families and have children. I told him that we do not have any pornography in our house but that he will see it some day. Maybe from kids at his school, maybe from something that he just finds on the ground, maybe from something on the internet. He will probably be curious and may quite like the pictures that he sees. Men tend to like to see women’s bodies. This is normal and is part of his body getting him ready for a permanent romantic relationship. Much of what other kids in school might say about sex is wrong. Much of what is shown in pornography is wrong, or misleading, or not conducive to helping us form long term and fulfilling sexual partnerships and relationships. DW and I hope that when DS sees pornography or hears something about sex at school that he can tell us and we can talk about it. We will always be honest with him.
Also, that there may be some lessons at church in young men’s that include references to pornography. We can talk about that too when the time comes but for now just be aware that it may happen.
In summary, He will soon begin to develop interest in girls and they will eventually start to develop interest in him. He is a great young man with a lot going for him and eventually DS will find a very special woman that he will choose to build a life and a family with. All of this is part of growing up and is completely normal. There is also a lot of misinformation out there and we hope that Roy Jr. can come talk to us whenever he has any questions.
That’s a great way to approach the topic with your boys. How would it be different with girls? Or would it be the same? If you don’t mind, keep us informed of your progress.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2019/08 The latest Ensign came out today. There are some interesting articles:
– Positive Body Image.
– Teaching Children about the Body.
– The Body: What Church Leaders Say.
– Choices and Happiness.
– Finding Joy in the Gift of Our Bodies. (This title made me giggle like a teenage in light of the topic we’re discussing.)
Roy wrote:
My major concern is for my children. The bishop’s counselor that I spoke to said in the SS meeting and to me later that he doesn’t ask the boys if they have seen pornography because everyone has at one time or another – He instead asks them when was the last time that they saw pornography.😯 :wtf: 😯 :wtf: This concerns me. I do not know the context of his statement or in what situations he might ask this question … but I would really prefer that he never ask my son about pornography … ever.
I would feel the same as you if I had a son. I know I wouldn’t want him being asked about pornography. Who knows, it could be the thing that peaks his curiosity. You never know if an innocent mind has all of the sudden been presented with forbidden fruit that they are now curious about.
It’s a shame to hear that more wards still do this. They asked me this back when I was in young men’s when I was as young as 12 (I’m 25 now). It really wasn’t a healthy question to ask someone that age. I wasn’t someone who looked at it and never went looking for it. But still I got asked, “When was the last time you saw pornography?” Being a socially awkward 12 years old who was taught never to argue with adults, I hadn’t grown any kind of a spine yet. Rather than stand up for myself and say “I don’t look at porn”(which was true), I instead felt like I had to conform to his question. I made up a lie saying that it came up in pop-ups but I always X-ed out of it. Thankfully I never saw it as forbidden fruit. But I did come away feeling more like porn was a boogey man, waiting to pounce and drag someone away no matter what they did. All because of the way the question was posed to my impressionable young mind.
Minyan Man wrote:
That’s a great way to approach the topic with your boys. How would it be different with girls?Or would it be the same? If you don’t mind, keep us informed of your progress.
I had intended on having this conversation with my 13 year old daughter but other things kept coming up and the conversation was continually postponed. Yesterday, we were sitting around the table asking the kids about their lessons at church and DD said that her lesson was on pornography. I indicated to DD that I would like to know more later that evening. When we finally had a good moment I asked her to tell me more about her lesson. The lesson included a video about a woman who became addicted to porn after encountering material at the age of 11.
There was discussion of addiction and strategies for how to handle being exposed to pornography. The strategies included closing or covering your eyes. If there is an audio component you can cover your ears in addition to looking away. If you are accidentally exposed to pornography, Satan will want you to feel ashamed or embarrassed and keep it a secret. Therefore you should tell someone right away about what you saw and where.
I told DD that I am not completely sure what it is like to grow up as a girl. I understand that men and boys are more visually stimulated while women and girls tend to be more emotionally stimulated by things like romance. I have heard and I think there is some truth to the idea that “boys will give love to get sex, girls will give sex to get love.” We had spoken to DD’s brother on this topic but had not yet done so with her. In moving forward in the conversation, I will try to do my best while recognizing that there are some differences in the genders.
I told her that in regards to sex and pornography I appreciate other sources trying to be helpful in supplying information. I like that the school might have a class on puberty and sex education, while recognizing that there are some limitations or gaps that are best filled by parents. I feel that much of the information gleaned by friends or classmates is most likely incomplete and very confused. I also appreciate the information shared at church, while also recognizing that some of the viewpoints shared by church members seem to be extreme.
Ultimately we are talking about naked bodies. God gave us interest in and attraction towards each others’ naked bodies for the purpose of creating relationships, marriage, and family. The same parts that respond to pornography also help us to be attracted to our spouse. DW and I have tried to have an open door home where we are more open towards bodies and bodily functions. This is in contrasts to some of DD’s cousins that grow up in a very private home where there is no discussion of these things and sisters that share a room will individually go into the bathroom to change. Our approach is perhaps closer to the other extreme but we are doing our best. One of the things that I really liked about DD being on the youth swim team some years prior was that everyone is in swimwear and very little attention is paid to how you look in it. The body is a performance machine to swim faster. Also, there is changing and nudity in the locker rooms without it being an issue. DD agreed that nakedness in the locker room had not seemed to be any big deal.
I have some concerns about how the church teaches pornography:
1) Is that I believe that the church is overly broad in calling it addiction. I believe that there are legitimate medical or clinical definitions for addiction. I also believe that there may be lots of young people that are interested in naked bodies, look at them from time to time, feel guilty about it and some would call them addicts when they are relatively normal young people. In addition there are some groups that have formed that will charge these young people money (and their families) to help “treat” this addiction. Some of these young people may have legitimate addiction – moderation control – problems. I suspect that many others are made to feel that their interest in and desire to view naked bodies is itself an unholy addiction when that is just not the case.
I said that the interest in sex and desire to see naked bodies can be somewhat like soda. Soda tastes great and can give us a burst of energy. It can quench our thirst. however, it is also full of sugar and can have harmful heath effects – especially with significant consumption over a long period of time. People drink soda all the time and we do not call them addicts. There is wisdom in management and moderation.
2) I don’t think it is helpful to bring Satan into it. I believe it muddles the discussion. God gave us these bodies and these inclinations in order to help us form relationships, marriages, and families. Let’s talk about managing these inclinations for positive and wonderful purposes.
3) I am not in love with the idea that naked bodies of themselves are dangerous and like heroine or cocaine can hook you after one viewing into a life of slavery. I am not a fan of pornography but nor do I want to give it power that it should not have. Referring back to the soda example we discussed an extreme of how silly it would be for a person to feel that they were somehow tainted or unclean (or addicted) because they had accidentally drank a soda because it was mislabeled.
4) Sometimes related to this is the topic of modesty. Some people seem to think that if a young man sees a young woman and becomes excited by her, attracted to her, and/or interested in her body that this is partly the blame of the young woman. I do not agree with such people. Women should dress for a) comfort, b) style and feeling good about themselves, and c) activity – is the clothing appropriate for the situation. If a guy finds himself sexually excited by seeing a woman then that is not the woman’s problem. It is also not necessarily the guy’s problem. It can be a natural response that does not require blame. Remember that God gave us these desires and they are not really the enemy.
I believe that church members can be extreme on some of these positions but that does not mean that pornography is good. I particularly dislike pornography’s objectification of women – taking their bodies for the amusement of men and removing it from the rest of their persons as whole individuals full of hopes, dreams, and feelings. I feel that sometimes this objectification of women can spill over into our culture and our language. I hate to hear women referred to as “bitches”. I believe that this is dehumanizing. I similarly hate the rhyme “bros before hoes”. “Hoes” being a synonym for whores or prostitutes. This rhyme seems to lump all women into that category. I believe pornography can feed into and exacerbate that mentality. This is particularly counterproductive towards the goal of relationships, marriage, and family.
At some point in the conversation I told her that DW and I have sex as a normal part of our marriage and this is normal. DD said, “Of course otherwise you would not have had me.” I further told DD that even though we are past the time in our lives for having children there are other purposes for sexual intimacy in marriage – such as emotional bonding and connectedness.
😮 😯 
In summary!Bodies are simultaneously really cool and no big deal – everyone has them. Our sexual desires are a gift from God to help us form relationships, marriage, and family. Like many of our emotions, it is perfectly ok and normal to feel sexual desires, then we get to make choices on how to express them. It is never ok to treat another person disrespectfully or to be treated disrespectfully by another. We give and receive respect for each other as human beings and children of our Heavenly Father.
I told DD that DW and I do not necessarily have all the answers but that we will always be available for any questions – that we will always tell the truth and we will not be embarrassed to talk about it.
These things have been on my mind too. I had this discussion with a friend a few months ago and his view is let’s not make it into a problem unless it’s a problem. Meaning, for married men (women too), is an interest in porn affecting your sex life and attention to a spouse? If so, it’s a problem. Is it affecting your performance at work? Taking away from time spent doing other productive things like hobbies? Are you spending a lot of time and money on porn? For teenagers, same questions, is an interest in this material affecting your relationships with friends, boyfriends/girlfriends, school, work, hobbies, etc. These things would all be instances where porn causes problems and affects quality of life. In our LDS world, I would guess that the main problems from porn are self-imposed. We view it as an addiction and that people who are acting pretty normally are broken. Spouses react the same as they would with infidelity. We have all kinds of shame, secrecy and compulsive behavior that comes from suppressing viewing porn. These are all real problems, but seem very unnecessary.
I wonder if we backed off on our problematic rhetoric if we would eliminate the problems we’ve created and people would generally avoid the real problems I mentioned at first (affecting relationships, jobs, hobbies, finances, etc.).
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