Porter’s "PM"

[Anonymous]

In line with what others have already said, my favorite part about this forum is that it is not intended to tell you or others what to believe or do. It is here to help you decide for yourself what course of action you want and need to take through members offering advice, support, discussion, and personal experiences and reflection.

In terms of the wordage “faith crisis,” I view it as relating to a medical condition when a patient reaches a crisis point in their health condition. Usually, it isn’t anyone’s fault that the crisis is happening. Rather, it’s a combination of factors, and each one is different from person to person. Just as a health condition is rarely anyone’s fault, so it is with a faith crisis. It just is as it is. For me, looking back on my initial FC and where I am now, I never blamed the church, but I also never blamed myself or God. And while I will always support more open discussions about church history and church doctrine, and especially developing a culture where doubters are more accepted and supported, I always remind myself that even though I view a story as fictional, that doesn’t mean that I and others can’t draw great benefit from it.

I was avoiding this thread initially, because I wanted to avoid any heavy-handed negativity or feeling of hostility, as that is not what I come to this forum for. However, I did come here to learn of and from other people’s viewpoints and experiences, and with that in mind, I’m glad that this thread is here, and I hope that you are able to stick around and contribute your insight to the community.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

One thing that would surprise some of you is that in real life I am a very nice and generous person, almost always laughing and cracking jokes, some of them warm prickles and I will do just about anything to help another person.

Then be that person, as well, here.

Please understand what I am about to say, but I think it’s important to say it clearly and directly:

The person you described above is the exact opposite of the person who comes through the posts you’ve written here up to this point. Those posts are chalk full of extremism, negativity, confrontation, violence, condescension, bitterness, condemnation, insult, etc. Honestly, they paint a picture of an out-of-control, violent, judgmental person – and my first reaction, bluntly stated, was, “Wow, it’s no wonder nobody likes this guy.” Your latest comments have softened that reaction greatly, but you built a massive wall through your posts.

So, be the person here you described above. It’s totally fine to express frustration and concern (and, sometimes, even anger), but we really are about finding peace and acceptance and charity – and staying LDS to whatever degree is possible for us.

[Anonymous]

Processing. Not ingoring. Busy at work. Camping this weekend. More to follow.

[Anonymous]

You’ll also find that is one of the nice things about this asynchronous message board…you can log in and respond when you have time. There is no deadline to respond. Living life offline is always the priority.

[Anonymous]

Porter, I didn’t get a chance earlier but I did want to thank you for your followup post.

[Anonymous]

Porter wrote:

For those of you who wish not to be stirred up then just move on.

Porter, I do just want to address this and I’m going to be very frank. Your statement above indicates that you think of this site as part of the internet at large, where you can comment with impunity and just tell other people that if they don’t agree, then they don’t have to be reading what you write. This is the attitude of many people online, and you can certainly find kindred spirits easily. This site is not like that. This is a community. We share frustrations and insights here.

I had a bout back in April where I was ready to throw it all in. I expressed my deep frustration here, as I could do nowhere else, and my friends here came to my aid. They didn’t simply tell me to ignore it or pray more or have more faith. They helped me to come to terms with it. The multi-way dialog and varied input I received helped me to gather myself and evaluate anew what I really believe is important. In the end, it was a giant step forward in my spiritual progression. In a spiritual sense, I feel that this community has saved my (new) life. I have many friends here who have helped me. There are many people I would love to meet in person someday. Holy Kisses are a thing the ancient past, but a Holy High-five would be an appropriate way to describe the result of such a meeting.

So, please, if you are going to participate here, do so as a member of the community, not with a self-proclaimed mission that is at odds with it.

My analogy for you is this: Imagine that your daughter marries a guy and they move into your basement. You hardly know him, but the first think he does is set up his PS4 and he settles in with hours of CoD and FIFA Soccer and Madden Football. When you talk to him about it, he says, “If you don’t like it just move on.” Obviously you wouldn’t appreciate or accept that.

As for being “stirred up”. I have no idea what you hope to accomplish, really. You seem to believe that it is your mission to stir people up in order to change the Church. The people here are already stirred up. That’s why they are here. But, they generally seek a peaceful cohabitation with the Church. It is a difficult path, full of pitfalls and setbacks, but many people here are working on finding themselves and it is less about the Church. I feel that in my own case, I could say that I am “Stirred, not shaken”. I have plenty of frustrations with the Church, and I don’t need you to point out the failings of the Church in an effort to give me what you perceive to be lacking in me: “emotional investment” and “anger” (your words). I long ago embarked on a spiritual transition of my own, outside the confines of the Church. The Church remains an environmental part of my spirituality, but that is by my own choice and its role is complementary, rather than compulsory. Your desire to stir my pot is unwelcome and unhelpful.

Finally, let me offer some sincere thoughts, whether you stay here or not. It’s pretty clear from your posts that you assume the worst about the Church and its people (at least that’s how you present yourself). I have found, for me, that it is far better to seek out the good than to fixate on the bad (in all walks of life). I have known democrats who were wonderful people and I have known democrats who were massive jerks. I have known republicans who were wonderful people and I have known republicans who were massive jerks. I have found a##h###s at work, at sporting events, at the grocery store. Yet most people… the vast majority… at work at sporting events and at the grocery store are good, kind people who would help you if needed it. Some of them could be among the kindest people we could ever hope to meet in this life, but we don’t find out, because we pass them by and never see them again. Just like in every other demographic, there are Mormon jerks. However, Mormonism produces, IMO, and overabundance of really good, sincere, caring and devoted people. I believe that it is good for me to remember that and to treat them with all the kindness and deference that they rightfully deserve. The Church has many aspects that do need to change or continue to change. I do what I can to be a part of that change, but I do it in respectful way as much as I possibly can. Mostly, I just worry about me. I have my own spirituality and I don’t need to take down the Church in order to find my own path. I have found that by doing all this, my earlier feelings of anger, frustration, and depression have yielded to peace.

[Anonymous]

Porter welcome,

I am so glad this thread has stayed open and active as it gives us a chance to see where we’re coming from as a group. One thing that I think may help you is you seem to place the blame on ” the church” as if it were a living breathing thing. It is not, it is made up of men and women who often make mistakes even the prophet. The GA are not perfect and so if one of them decided long ago to cover up something, that was their decision and their mistake. Let me say all organizations do this, they all cover up history they would rather forget. Take the USA for example, many people will criticize Nazi Germany for the internment camps but will, for one reason or another, won’t the Japanese camps we had here. That’s because we’d rather forget. Now back to the history of the church, there are things people thought it best to forget and so it got covered up. This was that persons choice. The thing that hurts is we all heard growing up that the church and prophet are perfect and to learn they are not hurts. Like a kid learning Santa isn’t real, it hurts and we all have to learn to manage the hurt.

So you can understand a different perspective, I’ll tell you why I had a faith crisis. It wasn’t any historical or doctrine reason, I simply grew tired of the way I was treated at church. Growing up with a single parent and then not being a typical Mormon meant I often felt an outsider and grew tired of it. Since finding this site I have found other outsiders and am grateful for their perspective on how they deal. I also have discovered teachings that were hurting me and I just didn’t know it.

I hope you stay and learn and grow with us.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Tatania.

TataniaAvalon wrote:

Let me say all organizations do this

I think so too, even individuals. It’s all about how we handle it when the truth comes out.

[Anonymous]

Let’s assume that porter is right. Even if he is right, there is more at stake than our own membership and testimonies. I have a believing spouse and believing daughter. Given how the doctrine entwines church activity with mutual family salvation, stirring people up to anger may well lead to broken families. So, I would think carefully about intent to stir up people to anger…for the good of the silent stakeholders in their lives.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[Anonymous]

It might appear that I have willfully neglected my friends here, but that is not the case. I know everyone can get pretty busy but it feels like God has snatched me out from these conversations for a season.

First was the non-LDS camping trip; 41 scouts, 35 were 12 years old or under, 15 new Webelos. A dozen adults, including 9 new fathers. The original leader of this trip was stricken with a kidney stone and the adult leadership fell in my lap a couple hours before departure at 8:00 Sat. But fortunately with a fantastic Senior Patrol Leader it all came together, one of our best trips ever. Until about Sunday 3:00 am …… At the risk of another horror story (possibly not repeatable here) I will only mention that repentant scouts, angry parents, attorneys and law enforcement are involved. The hours and hours spent on the phone in the subsequent days…

Then the problems at YM/YW that inspired the original post that got me into trouble with its little horror stories I am finding are but a tip of that iceberg: Faith crisis of bishop’s wife over polygamy essay, 2 bishops butting heads and angry at each other, one YM leader caught cheating on his wife, a family reactivated about 5 years ago leaving again, 3 other solid couples leaving after raising their children, 4 YM/YW Presidencies planning Wed night while undermining and not communicating with each other, some acting aloof others extremely aggravated, an eagle project completed and then rejected by the district- the scout aged out before he could fix it, district scouting investigating our ward due to no actual board of reviews , scout master conferences, or court of honors in 3 years, all merit badges earned except at camp signed off by one person, 4 more up-coming eagles (sons of BP, Ist C,HPGL, YMP) probably going to have their rank demoted back- how far is anyone’s guess, Salt Lake attorneys sniffing around ; what have I forgotten?

Missionaries telling investigators about the LDS church’s great commitment to scouting. Last year this worked and 3 single mom families were baptized with 7 teenage boys between them. All 3 moms are now inactive and only 2 boys come to scouting occasionally. This year 13 new scouts and single mom parents with limited income (none are church members) have joined the troop because it is free (one bishop is promising the other will pay their registration).

The bishop who called me knows me as well as anyone and his intention was for me to stir the pot. (I got on here and stirred the wrong pot, sorry). He is so frustrated that he wants to unsheath the battle ax of the Lord. This, his wife informed my wife during a conversation about issues with the polygamy essay. So he got what he asked for.

I tricked 6 missionaries into an empty room by pretending to be a visitor at church and then unleased a rebuke upon them for lying about scouting in this ward. They were not the original liars but they became defensive and voices were raised and it nearly came to blows. It is fine to lie about scouting as long as it leads to baptism? No. Then my heart was filled with compassion for them; they are barely older than my scouts, and I invited all of them to my place for dinner that evening.

I picked up 2 pounds of Italian sausage and found some chicken, black beans, rice, vegetables , spices from my kitchen. I am a decent Dutch oven cook but God cooked that meal around a campfire in my back yard ; it was far better than I am capable of by myself. And it was like the food the widow fed Elijah, it never ran out. I don’t know how much food you can get in a # 10 Dutch oven in comparison to how much 6 hungry missionaries can eat, but it seemed to add up to more than enough.

We chatted about how LDS missions have changed in the past half a century, about living with integrity and the purpose of a mission in the context of a surge with no increase in baptisms, and about doing what was right- let the consequences follow and not what was demanded by others, and the current /future use of the internet by missionaries, and more than anything they talked freely about these issues among themselves. It was the most authentic and anti-authoritarian conversation I have had with full-time missionaries in many years.

As it got late and they were about to leave I felt inspired to stand up on a chair as if it was a stump with both arms to the square and bless them like the old pioneers used to pray. I was filled with the Spirit and waxed eloquent about what we had been discussing. I think I sounded more like the old revival preachers I met in the piney woods of Mississippi about 30 years ago and not so much like a suburban churchy Mormon. I asked for the Lord’s forgiveness for all of our weaknesses, and it suddenly started to rain so hard we would have been drenched even if we had sprinted for the house. And we all knew it and just stood there while the Lord baptized us with torrents of cold water from above. I think it was the most spiritual experience I have felt this year.

The next morning I had a cardiac event and spent several days in the hospital. This time it really hurt and I could feel my cantankeous Scottish grandfather coming for me. I am far from perfect but I walk with Jesus as much as I can and I have hope He will claim me as His own and I fear not death. I fear for the hardship my patient wife would face and I would like to see my children marry.

I have a new lease on life, a new beginning, living on more borrowed time. I hope that I can be helpful to some of you here on this site when I get bored and not do more damage than good. I might not exactly fit here and my problems are not yours. But to here is where I have stumbled at this time and I am grateful for your acceptance and I will strive to be a bit nicer and not stir anyone up to destructive anger. I read your comments and strive to comprehend them and be helped by them. I hold no malice to those who disagree with what I say and take whatever action they deem necessary to protect the mission and the flavor of this their site.

[Anonymous]

Porter, I hope you recover quickly. We are all learning as we go. This site has been very valuable to me in my journey. I have very different opinions at times from some of our fellow posters, but I love to read about their experiences and their opinions. The honesty here is refreshing. I hope you can stay and offer us your experiences and opinions too,

[Author]

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