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https://www.deseret.com/faith/2022/7/21/23271786/does-image-joseph-smith-exist-what-one-descendant-found-forgotten-family-heirloom-lds?fbclid=IwAR2gXqFfrbcfrVRm7WjTpe9Qj9E9MESf_ywYlxNKQsLkUPKTSBrSl__ZW6A ” class=”bbcode_url”> https://www.deseret.com/faith/2022/7/21/23271786/does-image-joseph-smith-exist-what-one-descendant-found-forgotten-family-heirloom-lds?fbclid=IwAR2gXqFfrbcfrVRm7WjTpe9Qj9E9MESf_ywYlxNKQsLkUPKTSBrSl__ZW6A This article from Deseret came across my Facebook feed and it actually was pretty interesting. A descendant of the Smith family in the Community of Christ church inherited some family heirlooms. Among them was a locket with a daguerreotype image that they are convinced is the prophet himself. Looking at the picture compared with a 1842 oil painting of the prophet, there is some resemblance.
The facial structure appears to be about the same. The cheek bones seem less pronounced in the locket image, but that could just be due to different lighting. The eye and mouth shape are slightly different from the oil painting as well. Perhaps just artist error? The thing that I find most convincing is the line that is next to the left eye brow. It’s a unique feature that was prominent enough to appear in the daguerreotype and the artist’s painting.
Thoughts?
What I found interesting was the large amount of members in the comments section saying that it 100% wasn’t JS. Considering that we do not have photographs of JS to compare it to, they just seemed unreasonably sure of themselves. It just seems interesting that everyone has ideas in their mind of what JS looked like and it is possible that the real live Joseph just can’t measure up to those lofty expectations.
I found myself wondering how people would react if we found a photograph of Jesus (setting aside for a moment the blatant anachronism). People would insist that it couldn’t be him because it doesn’t quite look as they had imagined him to be (heavily influenced by artist’s depictions).
I had first encountered an article about the picture in the Salt Lake Tribune a few days ago. It is interesting and it sounds like actual intense research has been undertaken to prove its authenticity (not like “My Aunt Rose’s next door neighbor’s cousin said it’s Joseph”). I think paintings never look like the individual and agree that the similarities between the picture and the portrait are enough that I believe it is very possibly a picture of Joseph Smith. I think the church’s response is interesting:
Quote:The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released the following statement regarding the daguerreotype.
“Every few years, potential donors bring artifacts to the Church History Library for review, including alleged photographs of the prophet Joseph Smith. Such artifacts are, of course, of great interest to the church. Though it was not mentioned specifically in the article, church historians, archivists and artifact experts were provided — by the item’s owner and the article’s authors — the opportunity to analyze the locket and photo and to review their findings prior to publication. We concur that the daguerreotype and locket were created of the materials and methods appropriate to the 1840s. However, as nothing is definitively known about the locket’s history before 1992, we cannot draw a conclusion about who is pictured in the daguerreotype. We welcome the recent publication of the image and hope it will prompt the discovery of additional information helpful to determining its authenticity.”
I get they need to be careful in light of deceptions such as the Mark Hofmann debacle. I also get that we do have some experts in historical research and could probably verify if the church really wanted to.
(Typing at the same time as Roy.)
Roy wrote:
What I found interesting was the large amount of members in the comments section saying that it 100% wasn’t JS. Considering that we do not have photographs of JS to compare it to, they just seemed unreasonably sure of themselves.It just seems interesting that everyone has ideas in their mind of what JS looked like and it is possible that the real live Joseph just can’t measure up to those lofty expectations.
I found myself wondering how people would react if we found a photograph of Jesus (setting aside for a moment the blatant anachronism). People would insist that it couldn’t be him because it doesn’t quite look as they had imagined him to be (heavily influenced by artist’s depictions).
Call me cynical, but I believe if someone like Elder Ballard (a direct descendant of Hyrum) came forth with this instead of a member of the Community of Christ there would be lots more acceptance and less poo-pooing from Deseret News readers.
At the same time, urban legends like the painting of Jesus in the red robe by Del Parson being approved by apostles as being what He actually looks like take hold and hang on (I guarantee I can find people in my own ward who believe that story).
I’m skeptical but we’re so far removed from anyone that knows what Joseph Smith looked like that I don’t think anyone will ever be able to say with 100% certainty. Skepticism is baked in at this point, no matter what the photo looks or doesn’t look like. The articles I’ve read have been light on the details but after hearing some details it very well could be a photo of Smith.
Here’s a podcast from Mormon Book Reviews (an Evangelical interested in all things Mormon interviewing various people) where they talk about some of the details.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5aUTj-VvRM&ab_channel=MormonBookReviews ” class=”bbcode_url”> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5aUTj-VvRM&ab_channel=MormonBookReviews Roy wrote:I found myself wondering how people would react if we found a photograph of Jesus (setting aside for a moment the blatant anachronism). People would insist that it couldn’t be him because it doesn’t quite look as they had imagined him to be (heavily influenced by artist’s depictions).
I think you’re right that there would be people who are unwilling to accept what he actually looked like, were such a thing to exist. Jesus’ appearance was supposedly unremarkable (he had to be specifically identified among the disciples by Judas for example). I guess it goes along with the saying ‘never meet your heroes’. Chances are very low that your expectations will be met.
DarkJedi wrote:Call me cynical, but I believe if someone like Elder Ballard (a direct descendant of Hyrum) came forth with this instead of a member of the Community of Christ there would be lots more acceptance and less poo-pooing from Deseret News readers.
Perhaps I’m just as cynical, but I have no doubt that reactions would be completely different if the locket came from one of our own. Especially if it was from someplace like Elder Ballard’s family.
Over the years there have been a number of pictures that have been reported to present Joseph Smith Jr. Many have very convincing background stories. Do a google search & look under “Images”.
For me it would be interesting to see a real image of JS. It wouldn’t change anything for me. Just like seeing
a likeness or image of JC. Here is one speculation the circulated recently.
https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article7008411.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200/Jesus.jpg I find it interesting how various races; cultures & nationalities visualize him in pictures & stained glass.
Many have the racial traits of the country of the artist that created the artwork. As it should be, IMO.
It’s interesting, my thoughts on seeing the photo were like “wow, he was an actual person”. I mean, of course he was. Nobody claims anything different, but it does feel weird having spent my whole life only seeing highly idealized paintings of him. I think it can be easy to forget that historical figures were actual people, not the just the characters of the many stories we tell about the past. Whether or not this photo is actually him, it is something interesting to think about. Arrakeen wrote:
It’s interesting, my thoughts on seeing the photo were like “wow, he was an actual person”. I mean, of course he was. Nobody claims anything different, but it does feel weird having spent my whole life only seeing highly idealized paintings of him. I think it can be easy to forget that historical figures were actual people, not the just the characters of the many stories we tell about the past. Whether or not this photo is actually him, it is something interesting to think about.
I had a similar thought when I saw it. Without a real picture, you’re kind of forced to come up with some mental image to fill in the void. For me, it was Nathan Mitchell’s portrayal of Joseph. Whether it’s an actor or painting, the options are usually much more polished than reality. Seeing this picture, even if it turns out to not be him, makes him a little more real.
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