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I may never get around to writing a detailed introduction, and as I read the ones that are posted, I’m not sure I have much to add. I don’t know where I’ll land, but I’m happy to be passing through here. In some ways my mind is more clear and refreshed than ever. I see it in little, mundane events. A woman in my ward called me out of the blue this week. In the past I’ve always reacted to “Sandra” kindly while playing my mental recording labeled “Sandra.” It would go something like, “She’s got some real problems. Why does she burden her family with such strange eating habits? Kinda see why her sons couldn’t wait to leave home. I wonder what’s going on with her husband?” Etc. But this time I was really, truly happy she had called. I found some common ground. I wasn’t impatient and counting the minutes. It was great. I notice the biggest change in how I treat my husband. Thanks for maintaining this site, providing a place for me to put my questions and fears while I go about life. Ann wrote:I may never get around to writing a detailed introduction, and as I read the ones that are posted, I’m not sure I have much to add. I don’t know where I’ll land, but I’m happy to be passing through here. In some ways my mind is more clear and refreshed than ever. I see it in little, mundane events. A woman in my ward called me out of the blue this week. In the past I’ve always reacted to “Sandra” kindly while playing my mental recording labeled “Sandra.” It would go something like, “She’s got some real problems. Why does she burden her family with such strange eating habits? Kinda see why her sons couldn’t wait to leave home. I wonder what’s going on with her husband?” Etc. But this time I was really, truly happy she had called. I found some common ground. I wasn’t impatient and counting the minutes. It was great. I notice the biggest change in how I treat my husband. Thanks for maintaining this site, providing a place for me to put my questions and fears while I go about life.
Ann, that is one of the most tremendous things I have read here! Thank you!
Cwald like you I have have been moving on for the most part. As my rational mind asserted itself, I to have found it more difficult to read posts that to me are gymnastics as you say. I tend to want to correct people, but then I must remember not everyone is at the same point on their journey. At one time I to was an ardent believer, then a liberal believer, then a non believer. It is the place that I think 80% of us will get to at some point unless we put our heads back in the sand. I am emotionally disengaged from the church and find it of value only for the cultural benefits it affords my wife. Beyond that I find it more trouble by far than it is worth. As to its past or current truthfulness well lets just say I do not believe in Leprechauns either.
So brother I say we keep in touch and forge ahead the best we can.
Hmmm. i have tried the post [stay]LDS life…that was my India experience. it left me more disenchanted and longing for somewhere to call “home”. I hope as you find your new “faith” you will find joy therein… I have always been disenchanted by other faiths. So I came home last year and of course the first sunday back, i couldn’t make it through a set of meetings without a flame-out of sorts. it isn’t easy. But I remain firmly committed to the Middle Way, and if I choose, that includes activity and full participation in the church.
What makes it profoundly difficult is that those closest to us reject us because of the fear of “spreading disease germs”. On my weekly date last night, we had a melt-down the moment I mentioned that some “counsel” wasn’t “commandment”, and my DW refused to talk about anything of substance. I wrote a rather personal blog entry on this, coming to the conclusion that
I walk the Way aloneI post here because there are many who wish to stay, as do I. I don’t think that will change for me, because of the connection to my wife and children who believe and find benefit. as well, thank god, my father and my siblings are tolerant of the Middle Way, as my parents have lived that Way their entire life.
I agree with you, cwald, the Middle Way isn’t easy, especially within the rigid, intolerant structure of the church. that your family turned against you makes it impossible. Like Brian, I wish we could sit around a burn barrel and really talk and share…that is what we really need, the ability for us to share, in person, our experiences with faith. unfortunately, this isn’t happenin’ for us in the church.
Who knows where the Way leads us.
This is something I think about daily. This site has helped me want to continue to grow spiritually, pray, study the scriptures, and go to church. I realize I also can’t tell everyone inside the church or outside about my problems with it, without some form of chastisement, but that’s OK. I have peace at the moment. I also like having a community of people to talk about things that might not be appropriate fodder for church lessons. I don’t hide who I am at church, but the point of lessons isn’t to dwell on the mysteries, the cultural weirdness, the circular logic of some of what is presented (although I often do point this out at church), or the flaws of the community, but to focus on the application of the basics and to teach those who are new to it also (youth, converts, and recently reactivated). cwald wrote:It seems like there are a handful of long time participants here who perhaps have, or are currently, moving into a poststayLDS phase of life…When staylds members cannot honestly comment and speak frankly about the issues, and cannot voice opinion, because of the mission to help stay LDS…
is it right to just be quiet because it might hurt someone elses faith on the site? At stayLDS, is it more important to defend the church, be loyal to the church, or speak up and voice opinion even if it goes against the church and makes the leadership look bad? I understand that many church leaders lurk here…so I am asking an honest question… If one is negative and has ill feelings about the church leadership, and have come to the determine that the church is “not true” and that they no longer want to be part of it, should they hang out here on this site…I enjoy this site and the folks here. I like the positive discussions, for the most part…until I see myself and others denying the logic and using mental gymnastics to protect the church…and the mission of the of the stayLDS site. But the fact is, myself, and many others here, are mostly emotionally disengaged from the church…What sites and forums have you found, that will replace this community? Are there any forums where you get honesty, without hostility and contention and flaming antimormons and flaming mopologetic TBMs? Personally I’ll miss anyone that feels like it is time to move on and stop commenting here. Even if we don’t always agree I think that the different views still provide perspective and balance. That’s one reason I think this site is already as good as any post Mormon site could be if not better because I would expect any sites like that to eventually drift toward excessive cynicism and disrespect for the remaining active Church members. Some of the apologetic arguments mostly remind me what it was like to feel more emotionally invested in the Church.
I don’t worry that much about what effect my comments will have on others; I just like to talk about these ideas. If the moderators tell me I said something inappropriate then I will change my comments but most of the time it is fairly easy to express your opinions here. I see the main idea of StayLDS mostly being that if you don’t believe everything the Church teaches that doesn’t mean you need to feel obligated to leave and tell everyone about it the way some ex-Mormons make it sound but if you want to take a break from church (perhaps permanently) then that’s not the end of the world either. As far as I’m concerned people should do what they think is best for them and their families and talking about it is just one way to help them decide for themselves what that is.
Isn’t what someone considers “mental gymnastics” subjective? However, I wish everyone well regardless of where they are on their journey. AngryMormon wrote:Isn’t what someone considers “mental gymnastics” subjective? However, I wish everyone well regardless of where they are on their journey.
I think so, AngryMormon. One person’s gymnastics is another persons peace and therapy and loving tone towards others.I think it’s worth noting that far and away, the majority for whom StayLDS is an oasis in the desert are lurkers who come and go without saying anything, but they benefit from the dialogue here, find what they need and move on after a time. Hawkgirl, thank you for pointing that out. It’s very true! I can tell you that I still come here to see your comments. I do not participate much (unfortunately) but I value your comments as I do those in NOM. I browse you guys all the time.
StayLDS sometimes helps me strike a balance when I need it. NOM I can vent in a negative way if I feel down – StayLDS I can see others who are partial believers like myself still to the doctrine and find that balance back. That brings me hope. Truly.
Cwald, I enjoy your posts, and have read your stuff online at both forums for literally years. Not many have walked in your shoes.
That said, I feel that there are not many who have stayed in the middle forever, whether that be here or at other forums.
John Dehlin did not – he finally just wanted a final resolution without staying in the middle and finding a balance.
Will we be all at that point in a few years? Its possible…. its possible… but here we can always enjoy calm waters so to speak, and I appreciate that.
Good words JayKay. Thanks for sharing. Brian, You note that you had to stop reading Faces East because it was too painful. I hadn’t thought enough about all the pain moderators feel in taking on difficult sites, and holding the hurt of so many people. That’s true of you and Charlene there, and of you and Ray and the others here as well.
I want to tell you that your ministry has healed me in many ways, both on that site and this one. I need to thank you and all the moderators for the personal sacrifices you give everyday to help heal others. I learn so much from everyone here. Thank you for making the church a safer place, and for sacrificing to show love to ALL of Christ’s sheep: believers and non-believers alike.
Thank you Brian, Ray, and EVERYONE here for all you do.
And to those who may decide StayLDS is not for you… You will be missed if you decide to go, but we also would understand (and welcome you back).
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