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As you may know I have long struggled with prayer. Answers to prayers, specifically, played a key role in my crisis of faith. I have come to some terms with the issue, seeing prayer as a sort of general worship but I still believe the vast majority of prayers are not answered although I do not discount the possibility. I am not opposed to prayer as being symbolic of devotion to God and I am fine with a prayer asking for vague and generic blessings to open or close a meeting, etc. I am undertaking a scriptural study of the subject, but in all honesty I’m not much of a believer in some of what I have read so far (whatever ye shall ask in faith, etc., don’t seem to ring true) and I haven’t really found any requirement yet that indicates how often one should pray. Islam probably overdoes it IMO. In the interest of full disclosure, I do not do meal time prayers – my family does, however. I sit quietly during the process and it has been this way for several years and with a child heading off to college soon we will be down to one at home. I also do not pray privately on a daily basis, and I do not ask for anything when I do. I believe all the reasons for why prayers may not have been answered are excuses meant to try to explain something we don’t understand (and apparently a lot of people don’t see even though the evidence – or lack thereof – is right in front of them). I’d be OK with a once a day family prayer, which could be included in a meal prayer, as long as I didn’t feel pressured to ask for anything or say things I don’t believe. I avoid being asked to say prayers in church by coming to meetings right on time or even a bit late but never early, not making eye contact with the person conducting, looking like I’m reading something on my phone, etc., and I have been successful in my efforts. So…my question is how do you, my friends, do prayer with family, in private, and in public? Do you pray at every meal? Do you have family prayer? How often and when do you do individual, private prayer? What kinds of things do you say in these prayers? When you are asked to give a public prayer, what do you say?
This is a good question…one I have thought about a lot over the years. And unfortunately I don’t have a good answer. I have a hard time with personal prayer. Have never been very inclined to pray (it has been a huge source of guilt over the years which makes it even more complicated).
There was a time once when I was in desperate need of peace and comfort. I prayed a lot during that time and I didn’t get anything (which caused me to flirt with atheism for a while, though I can never quite bring myself to that side of the spectrum). I guess one could argue that what I was praying for was not what I should have been praying for, but if that’s the case and I have to make some very specific prayer of a very general prayer to just receive peace, I don’t have the energy or patience for that type of praying.
I have a hard time with the just keep praying concept; Your time is not the Lord’s time; It could take weeks, months, years, a lifetime to receive an answer…I’m just not interested in that kind of persistence (not the persistence part but the kneeling and waiting part. I would rather read or serve or be doing something more active than just hoping for an answer).
So personal prayer doesn’t happen in a formal way very often. I dialogue with myself a lot, much of that directed at the heavens and I think that is good enough for now.
We try to have family prayer every night, I say prayers with my children. I love (LOVE!!) listening to them pray. Their innocence and the love in their prayers bring peace to our home. I don’t want to take away the possibility that it can be valuable in their lives even though I have a hard time with it. We say prayers over meals and sometimes just together as a family. They are pretty short and quick as my oldest is 6, and my second cannot sit still for more than 3 seconds and the baby doesn’t care one way or the other.
But I try to model it for them because I know other people have a different experience with it than I do and i would not want to remove that option for them.
Formally and personally, not very often. I just am not oriented for that. In my heart as more of a general, informal dialogue, quite often throughout every day.
With my family, my wife and I have tried regularly over the years, with varying degrees of success.
I believe in the concept and principle, but I have found I’m just not wired for formality when it comes to prayer. Otoh, I have had some really cool experiences with prayer on a few occasions, and I have had a lot of really good things come to mind when I am casting my voice to the heavens internally.
Having said all of that, I do NOT discount the experiences of people who pray formally on a regular basis and talk of wonderful experiences. I think God talks to us and we talk to God any way that works or makes sense to us, and I have no problem with anyone praying in whatever way feels right to them.
I don’t have a problem doing what I’ll call “traditional prayers” when asked in church meetings. As a family we have traditional prayers over every meal, scripture study, bedtime, etc. I gladly offer up traditional prayers for those occasions as well. Individual, traditional prayers? Very rare. I’m similar to SunbeltRed; in my case I have a never-ending internal dialogue going. Seriously, I can scarcely turn my brain off, so much so that it keeps me up a night. I’m constantly reflecting on things I’m thankful for, hopes and dreams, potential future issues on the horizon and how they may be avoided, how I could have handled a recent situation better than I did, etc., etc. My mind is constantly going, if you can equate that with prayer I guess that’s my way of watching and praying (always) lest I enter into temptation. You might equate that to anxiety though.
I believe the frequency we are taught to offer up traditional prayers in some ways undermines their efficacy. Waking, departing, meals, opening meetings, closing meetings, going to bed; and some of those prayers from that list are multiples, a prayer as an entire family, for the couple only, and for the individual. Vain repetitions like “strengthen and nourish” “those that could not be with us” “arrive safely” “have a good day” etc. creep in because:
1) We give so many prayers that they become less special, they become a formality. We pray because the hour for prayer has arrived. The most powerful traditional prayers that I remember were the impromptu, spontaneous ones, not the ones that were offered out of obligation.
2) There’s only so much you can say in a vocalized prayer over food.
3) It’s hard to get creative when there’s a formula – wherever that formula happens to come from. Culture, “steps,” etc.
You might ask how I reconcile my state of constant thought serving as my version of prayer with my belief that frequent prayers become meaningless. Well first off most of my thoughts are meaningless, so there’s that. I suppose that’s one of the reasons I rarely offer formal, traditional, individual prayers. I’d just restate the things that were running through my mind all day. It becomes redundant. Perhaps there is value in doing a formal recap at the end of the day. I’d have to experiment with that again.
We pray morning and night as a family and a couple but I seldom pray personally for the same reasons you stated. We also pray at meals. I see prayer as a valuable social interaction in the family as it is a time where love can consistently be expressed to a captive audience.
I’ve never enjoyed praying in church. It’s probably because I’m slow of speach and my mind often goes blank if I’m not well prepared with material and it just seems wrong to “prepare” for a prayer. It’s supposed to be directed by the spirit after all, but I seldom have experienced anything like that.
Part of my crisis of faith deals with prayer as well. When I was seriously doubting for the first time and tried to pray for answers, I just felt cold and alone. I’ve often wondered if that feeling was somehow analogous to the darkness that Joseph Smith experienced before his first vision, and maybe I just didn’t show enough faith to get to the real answer. Maybe I should have tried to rebuke Satan for interfering (I had no indication that Satan was interfering and didn’t even think of it at the time). Or maybe I wasn’t being righteous enough to get an answer. Or maybe I did need to try again every day for a year. I eventually decided that I didn’t care for the idea of a god who would play those kinds of guessing games with me. I also looked back over all the prayers I had said in my life and realized that I had never had any kind of spiritual experience associated with prayer, or anything I would consider an answer from God. So I haven’t said a personal prayer for over 10 years. I can see some ways in which it might be helpful for me to try to open myself up to some kind of interaction with, or openness to, a potential higher power again, but I haven’t been able to bring myself to try. There was a short period after I got married that my wife tried to get me to pray with her as a couple. I tried to say one prayer with her that ended up being horribly awkward and uncomfortable, because I just wasn’t sure if God even existed, so how could I possibly do this sincerely? She quickly gave up, which I was thankful for.
Early on in my faith crisis, I turned down a few requests to say prayers at church. In the past few years, I have agreed a couple of times and felt OK about it. I choose to view it as a simple formality, a way to be part of the group. I also see it as a way to exercise my humility by expressing gratitude for things relevant to the occasion, express my hopes for the coming meeting, and act as a mouthpiece to try to express what I feel the rest of the group would hope for, assuming God was there and listening. Unlike in the past, I have somehow learned not to feel fraudulent while saying public prayers (depending on the setting). I suppose it’s because I have redefined what I personally am doing with a prayer, and I’m comfortable with that regardless of how others in my ward might see it.
As a family, we say a prayer over our family dinner every day. We also read scriptures (one verse per child since their attention spans are so short) and say a family prayer most days of the week. Sometimes it’s more like every other day, depending on how busy and exhausted we are. We rotate the responsibility of saying the prayer from oldest to youngest, and I take my turn saying the prayer now that my kids are old enough to know and care what we’re doing. Again, I choose to view it more as an expression of my personal hopes, and like Sunbelt said, it’s also a way of modeling behavior that I think might be helpful for my young kids (even if it’s not helpful for me). I sometimes get twinges of anxiousness over my personal integrity when I think about how I’m addressing a God that I’m not sure is there and closing in the name of a Savior that I have no certainty is real, but I try to ignore that for the sake of my loving wife and children. For some reason it’s harder for me to feel authentic about it in the intimacy of my family than it is in an impersonal public setting—I guess because I know I’m setting a direct example for my children, and I’m sensitive to what I’m teaching them and what they’re learning to believe about me as their father.
I am amazed at your answers, thank you all. I honestly respect each of you and had no idea that I believe and feel much the same as you guys do. A light has come on today. (Just as a coincidence, it’s been one of those odd days when I have felt what I think is the Spirit more than usual and for no apparent reason. I have not prayed today, I did sit quietly during the meal prayer and I actually liked the opening prayer at the meeting I attended.) SBRed, I think I get what you’re saying – I also have these ongoing internal conversations and often when I say I have pondered something it’s really more of one of these conversations in my head. Sometimes the opposing sides of the Force are very much present in my head. (The dark side does not always prevail – hence I am a dark Jedi and not a Sith.) I am glad you have those experiences with your children, and I recall experiences like that as well. We did once pray as a family unfailingly. My FC began when my youngest was 6 – I cannot say it has not affected him or the others, and this is one of my greatest regrets.
Ray, I had no idea you felt this way, thank you for sharing. I also try not to discount the experiences of others who share what they believe are answers to prayers. I don’t believe God helps people find car keys (or boats
Nibbler, the constant thinker. That’s why I’m here now and will be here in the morning – my mind does not seem to shut off. I can buy that at least some of that has to do with spiritual interaction or some sort of prayer – although like you. many of my thoughts are quite meaningless and some of mine probably border on psychotic (nice, gentle psychosis though). I do relate to there being only so much you can say at meal time, and my 16-year-old, who will likely be offering about half of the prayers starting in a few days says a pretty much memorized thing (Bless *** on his mission, bless *** in ****, etc.). That’s actually part of my problem with praying so much – do I really have that much to say to God? Doesn’t he already know this stuff anyway? I tend to get annoyed when people keep repeating things to me I already know.
Steve-o, back in my TBM days I could pray with the best of them. I am not 100% effective at avoiding prayers at church, and the couple of times I have been caught recently my mind has gone blank – it’s a bit embarrassing. I can’t say some of what I used to say and what many members say now – I just don’t believe it. That’s why I’m asking what others say, hoping I might get a clue. The same thing happens, BTW, when I have had to give blessings or bear testimony.
Daeruin, I also haven’t said a real, honest-to-goodness personal prayer in over 10 years, either – and I don’t see it happening. I have felt that cold feeling of being alone. I have learned not to try to tell TBMs that it can happen – but it can and does. I have also concluded that I don’t want to play those kinds of games with prayers – and I honestly believe God doesn’t either.
You all have probably picked up on this, but part of the reason I am asking has to do with this meal time prayer business. It’s not really a point of contention, but it’s certainly something that’s there and evident everyday. TBM DW also regularly has family prayer (without me, of course). I might be willing to meet her halfway, but I’m having trouble with more than a prayer a day. Any advice in that vein is also appreciated.
Was reading this article today and it made me think about prayer differently than I have, I think because it comes from a more secular perspective, but it hit home (to me anyway). http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2014/09/ask_andrew_wk_on_prayer.php#more ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2014/09/ask_andrew_wk_on_prayer.php#more I think prayer is hard because I don’t know who or what to pray to, but I really like this quote:
Quote:Prayer is a type of thought. It’s a lot like meditation — a type of very concentrated mental focus with passionate emotion directed towards a concept or situation, or the lack thereof. But there’s a special X-factor ingredient that makes “prayer” different than meditation or other types of thought. That X-factor is humility. This is the most seemingly contradictory aspect of prayer and what many people dislike about the feeling of praying. “Getting down on your knees” is not about lowering your power or being a weakling, it’s about showing respect for the size and grandeur of what we call existence — it’s about being humble in the presence of the vastness of life, space, and sensation, and acknowledging our extremely limited understanding of what it all really means.
and this
Quote:To know that you don’t know is the definition of a spiritual awakening. And keeping that realization at the front of our mind and in the core of our being informs the rest of our existence. It takes a deeper type of strength to admit to ourselves that we don’t have it all figured out than to run around keeping all our plates spinning. It seems strange to think that turning yourself over to your own bewilderment would actually bring clarity, but it does. Solving this riddle is the beginning of any true spiritual journey.
I think i might give prayer a little more effort.
Thanks for sharing that SBRed. I’m going to reread it later when I have more time to contemplate, but I agree – it does give a perspective I had not considered before. Now if I could just find my car keys…. 
Sunbelt – Thank you that is fantastic. I for one do both, I pray and meditate. I also chatter to Diety as I go along. Before I even read this today, I was thinking – If I had a Wailing Wall nearby I would probably avail myself to it.
Life really is huge and I only do get one shot at it – I need all the help I can get making that one shot.
Excellent, SBR – and I agree completely with mom3. I figure it is important to try to be in tune with God (or whatever else someone wants to reference) – especially with the concept that we are gods and future Gods.
As a family we pray every morning before kids go off to school and every night before bed, with whoever is home in both cases. We pray over every meal together. I no longer have a strong testimony of prayer but I mind myself praying for help when I need patience at work or something is going poorly. My most meaningful prayer is the nightly prayer my wife and I say together. We often express love and appreciation for each other in those nightly prayers and I think it’s helped us stay emotionally connected even during the hard times.
I no longer pray formally with the family. I tried very hard to have regular family prayer but my wife would not support it, and given all the other challenges in our relationship at the time, I didn’t push it. Personally, I often pray when I wake up, or lie down for bed. I don’t kneel. And at times, when I grow fatigued with a certain project that is challenging, I will pray for help and success. In those moments, I might kneel, or give a more premediated prayer.
I agree with others about having a prayer in my heart. As I go through my day, I have this underlying current of belief that somehow God is watching me and will support me.
This thread is good as I believe I should do more premeditated, personal, formal prayers Thanks DarkJedi…
I try to kneel each night and pray formally before bed, personally and with my wife when possible, but I always end up having the more meaningful prayer afterwards while waiting to fall asleep. I still say the the formal prayer though, I think as a reminder to try to be humble. Personally, I like the fact that we pray often at church.
I’ve been thinking about prayer a lot recently. Mainly, I’ve been wondering what I should pray about. I’ve tried to ease up on asking for things to turn out a certain way and more just praying for peace and courage to deal with whatever comes my way. I was reading in Alma 12 and it suggests we pray to not be tempted above that which we can bare, to be led by the spirit and to develop virtues like love and humility.
The beautiful part about prayer, for me, is that it is an acknowledgement that the source of all creation is aware of me.
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DarkJedi wrote:In the interest of full disclosure, I do not do meal time prayers – my family does, however. I sit quietly during the process and it has been this way for several years and with a child heading off to college soon we will be down to one at home.
Your post just reminds me how different we all are, and I appreciate being reminded…. Meal prayers are the easiest ones for me.
We pray every night as a family, less often as a couple. I like them because we sometimes say things “to” each other that otherwise don’t get said. Sometime it’s a way to wipe the slate clean before bed and set aside strife from the day. It’s a window into each others’ beliefs, thoughts and concerns.
My personal prayers, usually kneeling at night, are silent and very different. I don’t pray more often since my faith difficulties began, but I do pray more earnestly and honestly.
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