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I am mostly a prayer of thanks person. I really don’t do any asking anymore except when someone is sick (prayer of healing). And I too prefer mental prayer to physically kneeling. Prayer that is more like meditation feels more comfortable to me. Prayer that is more like meditation…..Yeah Hawk, I think there are some definite benefits there. But don’t you just want to pour out your heart and soul some times? You know, just talk to God about every part of perhaps a difficult concern or maybe talk through some booming happiness? I don’t know. I guess I am one that needs a space to be that real. And Bridget…. I think recognizing, understanding, and following the Spirit is difficult for all of us. Maybe it is difficult because the Spirit does tend to feel a little different to everyone or maybe it works in different custom fit ways and so it is harder to jive ones experience with others. I feel as though this is one area in my life where I have been blessed, at least to some degree because I feel like identifying the Spirit is sometimes a very clear and simple experience for me. But I will confess that I have made mistakes with identifying the spirit and some of them have been with big decisions in my life. As I try to make sense of these troubling experiences I have decided to conclude on the side of mercy as I was young back then and hadn’t learned all my lessons yet and that perhaps my ineptness was ok in the grand scheme of things. I think now I am better able to search inside of the spirit for better and more grounded understanding and give myself permission to ask needful questions. I think I am more patient and less naive about the process than I was in my early college years. I am also learning to see the process in less romantic terms….and less cheesy too.
And just for the record, I prayed earlier and didn’t feel anything. I knelt at my bedside with the door closed and plead for a few needful things as my week hasn’t been the best and I am rather discouraged about the whole thing. I went in with faith and trust that I would feel something to bolster me in my day or help me to struggle effectively or I even went so far as to hope my burden would be lifted. Nothing. I felt nothing.
Why did I feel nothing? I don’t know. It wasn’t what I wanted and I feel the little bitter sadness and the doubt want to take more time on center stage in my head. But I don’t want to let doubt and bitterness in. I mean what good will that do me? Maybe this just means that prayer is work.
2 Nephi 4 is absolutely fascinating in this regard. We tend to focus on the Enos experiences, but Nephi’s lament is a GREAT counter-example, imo. I suggest re-reading it with your questions in mind. You really aren’t alone, and if a prophet who had visions like Nephi can write what he did . . .
I’m bumping up this thread to add something someone shared on my personal blog recently about prayer. She said: Quote:In my case I have found out how to make prayer work for me as well but I know it is much easier to talk about than to apply and I really wish it were as easy as to type those words.
I think one of the thing prayer helps me with is to re-focus on what I lost track of. I pray and I stay in a state of prayer until even if my brain is still foggy I can tell I have found my direction again.But I know there was a time when prayer did not help because I did not know how to use it.
Thanks for bumping this up again, Ray. I was just thinking this morning about the various forms of the 1st vision account…and I believe young Joseph was using prayer for personal direction to re-focus and to ask for personal forgiveness moreso than any kind of inquiry about which church is right.
He may be a controversial figure, but I believe he was sincere in being right with God from the beginning.
I believe that is what prayer should be used for…and less about trying to control the outcome of situations.
Poppyseed wrote:I have been thinking a lot about prayer lately.
If you looked at my daily behavior, you’d prolly think I didn’t pray at all. I don’t kneel often to pray. I think that comes from basic laziness and maybe even a little rebellion against the whole ritual aspect of it. And then I have my excuses……
I do pray though and I pray a lot. I pray often in my heart and in my mind. I pray a lot when my heart is aching and when my soul is longing. I pray for answers and for help. Right now it feels like I need so much help as I recognize my pitiful limitations.
Two days ago I was going thru my daily routine and the words to a hymn came to my mind. Are you familiar with ” …when other sources cease to make me whole…”? That is how I felt and more than anything else I wanted to pray. But not to pray like I have been. I wanted the real thing. The going to the mountain and creating a real sense of communion with God.
And then I watch myself and I hesitate. Why do I hesitate? Am I too prideful? Do I think it would be too much effort to kneel at my bedside in the quietness of my bedroom? Do I feel it would commit myself to this mormon way that I am not sure about? What is my deal? Perhaps I just think too much. lol.
Yesterday the pain inside my soul was too much and truly no other source would comfort me. And so I prayed. And I immediately felt a measure better. And as I felt it, I analyzed how I felt. If there wasn’t a God (this ? flickers in the back of my mind), then how could such a ritual bring peace?
I guess I was struck by the beauty and power of such a simple act. I think I am in awe at it a little.
What are your thoughts on prayer?
I like that. Thanks for sharing your experience.“Be still & know that I am God.” Simple, but effective.
I believe the saying, “Prayer doesn’t change things. Prayer changes people & people change things.”
Yet, prayer is something I don’t completely understand – especially how it works with others… because I believe our spiritual bodies are not as limited as our physical bodies… so they can also have more influence, (healing, communicating) when tuned in right. (The question is – How do you tune in right?)
Scientifically or Psychologically speaking… prayer may be considered the intuitive subconscious connection (which is extremely important since it’s basically our boss).
Still, “The kingdom (experience) of God is within you.” God is like dark energy/matter & permeates everything… yet we only realize it when we experience God within us… through some type of meditative experience, unique & personal to each.
Heber13 wrote:Thanks for bumping this up again, Ray.
I was just thinking this morning about the various forms of the 1st vision account…and I believe young Joseph was using prayer for personal direction to re-focus and to ask for personal forgiveness moreso than any kind of inquiry about which church is right.
He may be a controversial figure, but I believe he was sincere in being right with God from the beginning.
I believe that is what prayer should be used for…and less about trying to control the outcome of situations.
Good points, Heber.It’s humbling to not require a certain answer or outcome from prayer… but to be submissive to God’s will.
I wonder about how it’s written of Joseph Smith’s answer to prayer, “
that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; & the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: ‘they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”(JS history 1:19) 1. Could it be that God was saying that all religious groups are wrong? Could it be that there is no religion with God – “but all things are spiritual unto God”?
2. Could it be that God was saying lip service only goes so far… that “the kingdom (experience) of God within” us can only be experienced personally?
I don’t pray in the traditional way anymore either, except in our evening family prayer. But I do offer a prayer at night when I go to bed (horizontal) and when I wake up in the morning too (horizontal). Funny, I was praying recently telling God exactly how I felt about the Church, tithing and the state of my heart. It was therapeutic. I didn’t ask for anything, I just told him what led me here, and why I feel the way I do. I didnt’ feel any disapproval from Him either. But I didn’t feel acceptance either. Who knows what it meant, but it was good to tell God how I actually feel about the Church right now.
Some of my favorite quotes on prayer: As we say our prayers ask God to show each of us what part we can do or say to help the solution.
God has editing rights over our prayers. He will… edit them, correct them, bring them in line with His will and then hand them back to us to be resubmitted. ~Stephen Crotts
No one is a firmer believer in the power of prayer than the devil; not that he practices it, but he suffers from it. ~Guy H. King
Seems like evil spirits were sometimes the only ones that recognized the Christ.
hawkgrrrl wrote:I am mostly a prayer of thanks person. I really don’t do any asking anymore except when someone is sick (prayer of healing). And I too prefer mental prayer to physically kneeling. Prayer that is more like meditation feels more comfortable to me.
I wish prayer worked like all the promises made about it. I wish you actually got answers, people could be healed, and you could gain greater knowledge. I wish it was true. I tried for so long and got nothing but misdirection and anguish about what I thought God was telling me. So now like hwkgrrl I do not ask for anything anymore. I just wonder if God is there and think about why he put me here and what is the pupose of it all.
Cadence wrote:. I just wonder if God is there and think about why he put me here and what is the pupose of it all.
that sounds like a sincere prayer.
Quote:I wish prayer worked like all the promises made about it.
It does – for some people and the promises they believe. It doesn’t for others.
Quote:I wish you actually got answers, people could be healed, and you could gain greater knowledge.
Some people do. I know I have had experiences where all of those things have happened to me and those I know. Some people don’t – or do in one or two of those ways and not in the other(s).
Quote:I wish it was true.
It is – for some people.
Quote:I tried for so long and got nothing but misdirection and anguish about what I thought God was telling me.
That happens for some people, as well. “He maketh no such thing known unto us” was, I think, a true statement – not an example of unrighteousness.
Quote:So now like hawkgrrl I do not ask for anything anymore.
That is understandable – for you and others like you.
Quote:I just wonder if God is there and think about why he put me here and what is the purpose of it all.
I am sure God is there, but I also think about why I am here and about what the purpose of it all is.
Old-Timer wrote:Quote:I wish prayer worked like all the promises made about it.
It does – for some people and the promises they believe. It doesn’t for others.
Seems a tad unfair from a loving and just God. But then again maybe there are those who can not make it on their own and need some divine intervention. The rest of us have to do a bootstrap pull and get on with it.
Quote:Seems a tad unfair from a loving and just God.
Life seems WAY more than a tad unfair from a loving and just God. I have my life, while a little girl is getting raped daily by her heroin-addict mother’s sadistic boyfriend – and a mother in a horrible slum watches her children die of starvation? There’s nothing fair about that – and hard to say it’s loving, from a purely objective standpoint.
I have no freaking clue how to explain or reconcile this life and what it throws at us – but it makes me open to possibilities like multiple mortal probations and “limited reincarnation” (staying within the human species) or even universal salvation / exaltation for making the “right” choice before we were born. I don’t believe in easy answers for questions like this, so I don’t claim to have any. I just lean toward what makes the most sense to me – and belief in God is part of that for me.
I can understand totally why it isn’t for others, but it is for me.
Perhaps it’s not about intervention. Perhaps prayer is about being able to talk to divinity, and try to stay close in spirit, a blessing in spite of life being unfair. My daughter just went off to college. She is on her own now. But it is nice I can Skype and talk to her periodically, and give advice when she needs it.
Perhaps part of prayer is something like that.
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