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I generally second the approach of building on common beliefs. Over several years DW and I have had a pretty rocky ride with the church. DW believes that the Priesthood is what matters – this leaves me to assume that she is partially agnostic about everything else (polygamy, BOM historicity, priesthood ban, etc.).
We went through a time where I was definitely more into sharing church history discoveries with her. Now I won’t bring it up unless she asks. I feel that I am in a much more balanced and even keel period in my life. DW and I just accepted a calling team teaching the 4 year olds so that might involve more discussion. Just last Sunday, I asked to reframe “Choose The Right” into “make good choices” and she was respectful of my request.
Just the other day we had a discussion on whether we are obligated to answer questions from the other spouse in matters that don’t directly concern them. DW stated that we are and that we have always had an “honest and open relationship.”
In my home, one of our three basic rules is to treat others as they want to be treated. I wonder if your wife would want you to profess these beliefs without faith. I know my wife wouldn’t.
Most of this type of tension stems from the mistaken view that we believe what pretty much everyone else believes. It’s a key characteristic of Fowler Stage 3 perspective: We are part of our tribe, and our tribe all believes ______ [fill in the blank with a viewpoint]. There are outsiders who believe differently, but that is because [fill in the story of why they are wrong and we are right]. Fowler calls that the “Story of Stories.” We develop a story that explains why there are stories. Prior to that, we don’t even understand that others think different than us. It doesn’t cross our mind. For Mormons, we all have faith in “The Gospel,” or we all believe in The Plan of Happiness (or whatever label you want to slap on it). The reason outsiders don’t believe is because either Satan is tricking their mind, or we just haven’t sent missionaries to remind them of all the things they’ve forgotten from their pre-existence. But all human beings KNOW and agree on The Truth at some level because of the “Light of Christ.”
Basically, there’s this grand delusion that everyone else sees things just like we do. And on top of that, happily married couples agree on everything, right? Otherwise, there must be something wrong in the relationship.
If someone doesn’t see things the same way we do (the way everyone sees it, which is the correct way), then they are being influenced by Satan. They are an outsider and a threat. That’s scary! Especially in a marriage.
😯 In my limited experience, it seems like everyone has to find the right balance for them between full disclosure and full deception. This is true in all social situations (including marriage relationships). It isn’t a new question. It’s been debated among philosophers for ages. Life is messy business. Staying married takes real work and compromise. People change over time. Those are realities that have to be dealt with. I’m not the same guy my wife married 23 years ago. She isn’t the exact same woman. Did we even know each other that well when we got married? Looking back, not really.
Our relationship works better when she doesn’t share everything with me in real time without any filter. And also when I don’t share everything with her in real time without any filtering. Most of the things I have regretted saying to my wife were things I should have waited to process a little longer. Getting angry comes to mind. Definitely better to cool off a bit first. So why not filter some aspects of our personal beliefs about God, especially if we know it will upset our spouse? I don’t have a problem with that.
But like I said, there needs to be some balance. I don’t think I would personally be comfortable with attesting explicitly to something I don’t believe. I think it’s better to retreat to being more fuzzy and unsure. Which to me is quite honest. I’m open to ideas in the future if for some reason I had better evidence for them. Why not? I’ve been wrong plenty of times in life
😆 Brian Johnston wrote:Most of this type of tension stems from the mistaken view that we believe what pretty much everyone else believes. It’s a key characteristic of Fowler Stage 3 perspective: We are part of our tribe, and our tribe all believes ______ [fill in the blank with a viewpoint]. There are outsiders who believe differently, but that is because [fill in the story of why they are wrong and we are right]. Fowler calls that the “Story of Stories.” We develop a story that explains why there are stories. Prior to that, we don’t even understand that others think different than us. It doesn’t cross our mind.
For Mormons, we all have faith in “The Gospel,” or we all believe in The Plan of Happiness (or whatever label you want to slap on it). The reason outsiders don’t believe is because either Satan is tricking their mind, or we just haven’t sent missionaries to remind them of all the things they’ve forgotten from their pre-existence. But all human beings KNOW and agree on The Truth at some level because of the “Light of Christ.”
Basically, there’s this grand delusion that everyone else sees things just like we do. And on top of that, happily married couples agree on everything, right? Otherwise, there must be something wrong in the relationship.
If someone doesn’t see things the same way we do (the way everyone sees it, which is the correct way), then they are being influenced by Satan. They are an outsider and a threat. That’s scary! Especially in a marriage.
😯 In my limited experience, it seems like everyone has to find the right balance for them between full disclosure and full deception. This is true in all social situations (including marriage relationships). It isn’t a new question. It’s been debated among philosophers for ages. Life is messy business. Staying married takes real work and compromise. People change over time. Those are realities that have to be dealt with. I’m not the same guy my wife married 23 years ago. She isn’t the exact same woman. Did we even know each other that well when we got married? Looking back, not really.
Our relationship works better when she doesn’t share everything with me in real time without any filter. And also when I don’t share everything with her in real time without any filtering. Most of the things I have regretted saying to my wife were things I should have waited to process a little longer. Getting angry comes to mind. Definitely better to cool off a bit first. So why not filter some aspects of our personal beliefs about God, especially if we know it will upset our spouse? I don’t have a problem with that.
But like I said, there needs to be some balance. I don’t think I would personally be comfortable with attesting explicitly to something I don’t believe. I think it’s better to retreat to being more fuzzy and unsure. Which to me is quite honest. I’m open to ideas in the future if for some reason I had better evidence for them. Why not? I’ve been wrong plenty of times in life
😆 I agree with both mercy and Brain. Especially Brian’s analysis of what is going on in the brain and why, it’s nothing really to do with religion, it could be any subject or an outsider perceived threat in any culture, business, family, tribe, government or religion. The thinking process and why and the reaction are the same (largely because this is the core of the “NATURAL MAN”.) it is by default our natural way of thinking before we develop critical thinking skills, logic and reason.
It’s why we instantaneously react and are often sorry later after we get done with analyzing and critically thinking of our natural instincts. And these are our natural instincts at play here, hers included.
Loving a lie isn’t at the heart of the issue. It’s “walking on egg shells”. Walking on egg shells for extended periods with constantly watching what you are thinking and feelings gets very stressful and exhausting. It’s why the middle way is so hard and ultimately why some can’t walk it anymore. They’re just exhausted from the excessive amount of constant mental energy needed to do this. It’s like having your boss behind your back watching you every second of every minute of every day for years or decades with no respite. Sooner or later most people will break down from the stress of walking on egg shells.
So it’s a balance between not walking on egg shells and being as honest and as comfortable as you can.
People have “natural defenses” that kick in instantly to an “outside or perceived outside threat”. It’s in each of us and you can tell when someone is on this state when they start talking or acting defensively “in black and white”. That’s a cue it’s time to back off and let things cool because a person can’t think rationally while the brain is depositing the chemicals causing this reaction (less than average amounts of norepinephrine and serotonin and excessive amounts of dopamine).
Until the excessive amounts of Dopamine subside the person really can’t be reasoned with, the chemical all but prevents it.
It’s “natural man syndrome” you could say. They are natural as a long occurring survival trait designed to keep us safe. Only problem is it can and will misfire at times releasing Dopamine or excessive amounts when no actual threat exists.
It’s here with us as a natural reaction and preservation instinct in us probably forever I’m afraid (at least as long as we have our earthly brains and bodies). So we might as well acknowledge it and work around it in a positive manner.
It helps to first know what is occurring and why, this isn’t the devil or evil at work here just natural instincts and chemicals for self preservation against threats or perceived threats.
I like Brian’s response because it simplifies things but is still very accurate.
Sorry for the detail, probably was too much but I thought you might like to know what is going on is hard but her reactions are indeed natural just not emotionally healthy. Be patient as much as you can and try not to let her reactions trigger your own dopamine or at least recognize it when it occurs and breath calmly knowing what is going on. In this state a person can’t act rationally.
Anyway, take care and I hope you find a middle way to deal with this. It is hard for anyone to deal, so breathe, walk away and think it through. It helps a lot if both people aren’t triggering excessive Dopamine and trying to talk at the same time. That’s a devastating combo.
New6, your story sounds very familiar. It’s a question I struggle with. My wife knows that I have questions, but she doesn’t know how deep they run. I am careful not to bring up concerns, although sometimes it’s unavoidable. When we do have discussions about faith, I try not to lie. I can usually give vague answers, and try to move on to other subjects. However sometimes, there’s just no way out. I either have to lie, or tell her the painful truth. In those cases I have chosen to spare her the pain. The consequence is that I add a burden to myself that is difficult to carry. I hate not being totally open with her. But it seems like my only option at this point.
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