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I was thinking about the ideal church experience… what would involve the most effective psychological & spiritual progress. Some times, at church, I will see people with a lot of fear or shame in their eyes.
One time, I asked a sister if anything was wrong… & plenty was! She had just lost a loved one.
Nobody had a clue that she was in so much pain – because everyone was too busy teaching & memorizing curriculum.
It seems like this is “missing the mark.”
I realize there are many pearls of wisdom to learn & teach – through scriptures – which is good for Sacrament Meeting & Sunday School.
Yet, we are commanded to “bear one another’s burdens.”
The ultimate commandment (which hang all others’ & prophets) is to love others as ourselves (& to love God – & as we love others we love God).
“Relief Society” is supposed to be about RELIEF.
We are all in need of relief.
I think the hour of Relief Society and Elder’s Quorum/High Priests – should be for counseling each other.
Nothing deep – that’s for professionals.
But simply asking how they are doing &
listeningto each other – even just 10 minutes each & then switching. Maybe prior to it, there can be a brief lesson/group discussion about a particular topic:
IE: Emotional Health & Goals, Spiritual Health & Goals, Physical Health, Intellectual Goals, Practical Goals, Social Health & Goals.
Thoughts?
I do see where you’re coming from on this. There are two issues here – being a listening ear vs being bogged down in other people’s problems. How do you help without becoming overinvolved with things which will make you vulnerable too.
I’ve come across the idea of psychic vampires, as needy people who suck the energy out of their victims. There seems to be some truth in this. Some people do just take and take… without giving anything back.
However, I still believe in charity for the deserving, not the purely parasitic (who regrettably do exist). Sometimes it helps just to be a listening ear. People like it when you sit down, and let them tell you their problems. We’re social beings, it makes them feel better, gets “things off their chest”. Charity isn’t just about doing work or giving money, it’s about listening as well. Someone mentioned this in priesthood a few weeks ago.
Quote:One time, I asked a sister if anything was wrong… & plenty was! She had just lost a loved one. Nobody had a clue that she was in so much pain – because everyone was too busy teaching & memorizing curriculum.
God bless you for this. You’ve done a great thing. (Marvellous work and a wonder?)
I am lucky that I do have people these days to talk about my woes, and who listen. I try and return the favor. However, there have been times in my life when I’ve been incredibly alone. Usually when I’m surrounded by people, such as your sister was.
I also wish Relief Society would return to its relief roots more – especially outside the congregation, but inside it, as well. Having said that, it can happen at the local level if regular members mention it to local leaders and local leaders are inclined to understand and make it happen. I’ve been talking about that recently to multiple people in my ward (not RS-specific, but more ward-wide with service to the community with no ulterior motives), and I’m starting to hear others picking up the tune and singing it.
SamBee wrote:I do see where you’re coming from on this.
There are two issues here – being a listening ear vs being bogged down in other people’s problems. How do you help without becoming overinvolved with things which will make you vulnerable too.
I’ve come across the idea of psychic vampires, as needy people who suck the energy out of their victims. There seems to be some truth in this. Some people do just take and take… without giving anything back.
However, I still believe in charity for the deserving, not the purely parasitic (who regrettably do exist). Sometimes it helps just to be a listening ear. People like it when you sit down, and let them tell you their problems. We’re social beings, it makes them feel better, gets “things off their chest”. Charity isn’t just about doing work or giving money, it’s about listening as well. Someone mentioned this in priesthood a few weeks ago.
Quote:One time, I asked a sister if anything was wrong… & plenty was! She had just lost a loved one. Nobody had a clue that she was in so much pain – because everyone was too busy teaching & memorizing curriculum.
God bless you for this. You’ve done a great thing. (Marvellous work and a wonder?)
I am lucky that I do have people these days to talk about my woes, and who listen. I try and return the favor. However, there have been times in my life when I’ve been incredibly alone. Usually when I’m surrounded by people, such as your sister was.
Thanks for your comments, SamBee.I know what you mean about energy suckers.
But I was thinking… it would be explained before hand, that they’d divide up in pairs… One would talk for 10 minutes. The other would just listen, except occasionally ask questions or check for understanding & validate the person talking. Then after 10 minutes, they switch. Just like visiting teaching, if some really don’t get along with others, they can say so to the coordinator.
I realize this would be a challenge & a lot would have to be ironed out, as some learn something new… how to communicate & listen!
And how to love those who think differently from us. I think many members would realize so much about themselves & others that they are currently oblivious about! This is so needed! I just feel it is something that has great potential for healing & spiritual & social growth!
Old-Timer wrote:I also wish Relief Society would return to its relief roots more – especially outside the congregation, but inside it, as well.
Having said that, it can happen at the local level if regular members mention it to local leaders and local leaders are inclined to understand and make it happen. I’ve been talking about that recently to multiple people in my ward (not RS-specific, but more ward-wide with service to the community with no ulterior motives), and I’m starting to hear others picking up the tune and singing it.
Good points, Ray.I know that women tend to have a great need to talk things out, but men do too, right?
Or maybe for men, it would be more like a mindless game (like fishing except not fishing) where they can talk without the pressure to talk.
Does that make sense?
I’ve heard petty arguments & gossip about people not sticking with the lesson in Relief Society.
IMO, the best lessons are ones from the heart – of EVERYONE… where it does not go by the manual, but by the spirit of everyone involved.
I hope leaders will consider putting the gospel in action… & helping members learn how to love & be loved. What greater thing could we do?
I went to my former bishop’s home, and we all had to write things on a bit of paper. I think we had five things each, and we had to guess who they referred to. I learnt some interesting things (that the bishop’s wife had been a model, and the bishop had been a kickboxer), and people learnt some things about me, like my cousin once being a semi-professional sportsman. This is a good game for getting to know each other. I would be against “enforced” counselling in a way. It would become too ritualistic. I think sometimes people just have to open up. It’s quite likely that your friend felt comfortable talking to you, Featherina, but there would have been other people in the ward whom she wouldn’t have been so comfortable talking to. I’ve been doing some counselling, I suppose, with a guy I give a lift into church. He’s been bullied at work, and I’ve been able to give him some advice. I managed to persuade him to speak to his manager about the issue, because the co-workers have gone beyond flippant personal comments, into nasty remarks about his wife and son, and his speech impediment. I think they had obviously crossed the line, and it was important something was done about it. Anyway, I think he appreciates me listening, rather than just advising as well. We’re going to the temple together for a week in March.
In my part of the world, men generally do not open up about their emotions. It’s our culture, and it’s reflected in the suicide rates of young men here. It’s very sad. Women have it better in that sense here.
Sam, I just want to say how much I appreciate your persepctive here. That’s all. /back to our regularly scheduled discussion
Thanks! Seriously though, I’m not sure how this could be incorporated into a block. Good idea, but doesn’t fit in with our homogenized, one-size-fits-all schedule.
Normally, when presented with a new idea, you scan the organization for existing structures that can handle the idea. I think many would say this counseling bit belongs a) in the hands of home a visiting teachers for day to day kinds of things b) the Bishop (the old “run to the Bishop” thing again) for more serious things. Or, go to LDS Social Services. The best support and help i have found in the Church is when it happens naturally. I have a friend in Canada. I have not seen him physically in about 10 years. But we are very close friends and talk about a whole variety of issues, including StayLDS ( which, he thinks is apostate, but that’s another story). But we are very good friends. That is the best form of counseling — when there is a natural connection between people. I don’t think it’s easy to systemize it as Sam Bee has suggested.
Quote:The best support and help i have found in the Church is when it happens naturally.
Amen. There is GREAT power in the basic concept of comforting those who stand in need of comfort, bearing each other’s burdens and mourning with those who mourn. It can be approached in a programatic way, but it can’t be realized, imo, until it is natural and flows simply from the existence of real, deep, abiding, fault-overlooking love.
Ray, I agree with you when you say: Quote:There is GREAT power in the basic concept of comforting those who stand in need of comfort, bearing each other’s burdens and mourning with those who mourn.
For me it is a measure of a person’s real character, when compassion for another comes naturally. Not because it is a duty or a sense of responsibility.
Ultimately, it will be used in our judgement here on earth & the life to come.
Mike from Milton.
From some posts, it seems this idea seems too far out there for some. But what is closer to the greatest commandments of all (which “hang all the law & the prophets” Matt 22:40)…
1. Listening to the same manual/church history lesson…
OR
2. Listening to EACH OTHER?
It’s almost like we’re too afraid to love, so we settle for boring, rote impersonal, cookie-cutter TRADITION.
I understand that it’s nice to have love more spontaneous & from the heart, but then what is the purpose of having a 3 hour block & home/visiting teaching (which often doesn’t get done)? Especially, if the GREATEST commandments are to love God others as ourselves (& as we love others we love God).
Featherina, I think it’s important in a setting / discussion like this to point out something that gets overlooked all the time by lots of members: The manuals in the Church are sparse – and intentionally so. The directions are quite clear that the intent in many classes is to engage the members in discussions about the topic being addressed. Iow, the ideal is that we talk about things with each other – especially in classes that aren’t introductory in any way (as opposed to Goepel Essentials, where it is assumed that most people won’t have heard the same lesson multiple times).
Iwo, we are supposed to be doing more of what you are saying here – but it’s much easier for the teacher AND the students not to prepare and participate in that manner.
Featherina- This is a very gospel centered idea. Some of my favorite Sundays are the ones when I remain out of class and sit in the cultural hall or chapel and have a personal conversation with someone. Not the general chit chat kind though I am uplifted by them too, but the ones where you are sharing heart to heart.
But I would offer two opposing thoughts on making it a standard Sunday meeting practice, the first is whenever mortals put something in program form whether it’s a potluck or visiting others, it looses something. Suddenly the true charity becomes a chore, a pressure, a defined moment where checks and balances are required and the genuine good begins to fade. I’ve seen this in LDS and non-lds situations. Each program began with a great idea of bringing hearts together. Because of that I am reluctant to encourage, even on a ward level, a program or at least a regularly scheduled program for hearts.
My last thought (I know this is a backward post), not everyone is a good listener or heart to heart person. It doesn’t mean they are bad or unrighteous, it’s just not their gift. Perhaps they are brash, fast talking, hyperactive or maybe shy, withdrawn, uncomfortable with others. A program like that could have difficult reprocussion is the pairings went wrong or personal interactions did more damage. I’ve seen it happen with well meaning sisters who visiting teach but step over the lines of courtesy. We have a woman in our ward who is pleased to inform anyone who will listen that she opens people’s cupboards to make sure they have enough food. Her heart may be in the best place, but for others it feels very intrusive. Though face to face on Sunday wouldn’t be a cupboard opening, what about heart aches you want cared for not just stomped through.
I love your idea, though and encourage you to keep doing it. I will jump on the bandwagon to and improve my outreach and lets see what happens.
We could add an hour to our 3-hour block on Sunday for auditing with an e-meter. 
[img]http://www.celebitchy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/emetertravolta.jpg [/img] Oh wait … wrong religion. Never mind. Sorry, sometimes I can’t pass up a small humor moment.
I think though that one of the greatest potential assets of a religious community is the family aspect of being there for each other. And by “being there,” I mean emotionally and spiritually being present with others in love — to mourn with those who mourn, etc.
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