PTCS – Post Traumatic Church Syndrome

[Anonymous]

Someone posted this on Facebook this morning and I immediately thought of some of us here.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithforward/2014/03/its-called-post-traumatic-church-syndrome-and-yes-its-real/

Quote:

PTCS presents as a severe, negative — almost allergic — reaction to inflexible doctrine, outright abuse of spiritual power, dogma and (often) praise bands and preachers. Internal symptoms include but are not limited to: withdrawal from all things religious, failure to believe in anything, depression, anxiety, anger, grief, loss of identity, despair, moral confusion, and, most notably, the loss of desire/inability to darken the door of a place of worship.

The physical symptoms of PTCS — which may or may not be present — include: cold sweats, hives, nausea, vomiting, sexual dysfunction, sleep disturbance, rashes, heart palpitations, increased blood pressure — oh, to heck with it. The symptoms are as varied as the people who suffer them.

There are degrees of PTCS — maybe you can still walk into a church, maybe you can’t, maybe you take the long way on the highway to avoid the sight of a steeple, maybe you’re even standing in the pulpit. But the one thing we all have in common is that we crash into religion when we go looking for God.

And the crashing has left us with spiritual whiplash, broken bones, bruises, welts and lacerations. It has left us feeling alone and scared and suffering. It has left us with a boatload of internal and external symptoms the persons of spiritual authority tell us are all in our heads and would go away if we just had more faith.

Don’t believe them.

Post-Traumatic Church Syndrome is not in your head, and you are not alone.

I love the bit I italicized. We crash into religion when we go looking for God. I have felt that way so many times. And unfortunately, I recognize that I (in my younger years) taught and defended some inflexible doctrines, justified some level of spiritual abuse, and held fast to dogma which often was rooted more in cultural practices than in the gospel. The hardest part of recovery for me, has been forgiving myself for possibly pushing others further from God when I foolishly thought I was speaking for God.

Thoughts? Comments?

[Anonymous]

Is it enough to belong to the true church? Is it enough to live the Mormon livestyle? Is it enough to submit to the authority of priesthood? To endure in this path till the end? I guess if all paths are equal that that approach is as good as any … but what if so much of the effort and striving is in the wrong direction. What if our focus on doing and expectations hinders the formation of relationship.

Indeed, sometimes religion is the very thing that obscures God from us.

[Anonymous]

There is definitely a difference between the members of the LDS Church and the institution of the Church. Latter-Day Saints are the consistently nicest people you’ll find anywhere. Now, you might find a congregation here or there in another religion that is a bunch of nicer people, but in the LDS Church every ward has lots of them. Many Saints are also deeply spiritual–again more than you would find in other churches. This is my opinion coming from my observations living in the Bible Belt but I think it’s accurate.

But the institution of the LDS Church is different. Its organization (at least at the ward level) is highly inefficient and dysfunctional. It puts a lot of pressure on people to carry out arbitrary objectives like home teaching numbers or baptism goals that can fly in the face of personal inspiration. Good people are turned into hammers to compel others to do the bidding of unseen higher-ups who have no clue what is happening at the local or personal level. None of this criticism is about the Temple; this is about the hierarchical nature of the Church, the callings (many of which are dysfunctional by nature–who wants to be called to “coordinate” things that half the ward doesn’t want to do).

One day I was in a ward member’s kitchen helping her during a party. I told her that in these kinds of events, people always seem so different than when they’re at church. She replied that that is because on Sunday everyone is stressed out trying to get to their next class, their callings, track down people, and do whatever else they’re assigned to do. Our church is a high-stress church especially on Sunday. Outside of sacrament meeting, there is no peace. You are lucky to be able to enjoy a few minutes in the hallway with some of the members who are not confined to the primary, nursery, library, or clerk’s office.

There are a lot of psychological ailments evident in many of the members. You don’t have to be a shrink to tell when someone suffers from depression, anxiety, OCD. Some of this may be due to the teachings of the Church (e.g., trying to rationalize every contradiction in OT/NT/BOM/POGP/JS), but I think for the average believing member it comes from where the rubber meets the road, where the abstract teachings are translated into the activity of the Church. So I think the analogy to PTSD is quite appropriate.

[Anonymous]

Hi mercyngrace. I had partially written about it in a post I made some weeks ago. Do to the sensitive nature of the subject and the people involved in it I erased it. It’s something relatively new acknowledged now that they have more research behind it. Before there was no research, in part because the western world is so very sensitive to religious freedom even at the expense of others rights. Far from a LDS thing. It was not researched for so long by many psychologist because of religious freedom backlash against this in this area. More and more research is being done now in face of the evidence. I go to therapy for this. It’s something I stifled with for decades because it wasn’t acknowledged before, the outline systems were treated but not the core. What I have learned it works much the same as PTSD. The effects and the illnesses run the same, but very from person to person.

In my case I thought if I got married the depression and shame would go away. After all, I was told it was in my head by many church leaders and some physiologist. But i never progressed at all under that assumption. Like PTSD it is not fully understood, but we know a lot more then we used to.

Here is what I encountered at my local wards and stakes.

http://www.religionnews.com/2013/11/12/david-barton-kenneth-copeland-soldiers-suffer-ptsd-according-bible/” class=”bbcode_url”>http://www.religionnews.com/2013/11/12/david-barton-kenneth-copeland-soldiers-suffer-ptsd-according-bible/

Quote:

(RNS) On a Veterans Day broadcast program, televangelist Kenneth Copeland and controversial historian David Barton told listeners that soldiers should never experience guilt or post-traumatic stress disorder after returning from military service.

Reading from Numbers 32: 20-22, Copeland said, “So this is a promise — if you do this thing, if you arm yourselves before the Lord for the war … you shall return, you’re coming back, and be guiltless before the Lord and before the nation.”

“Any of you suffering from PTSD right now, you listen to me,” Copeland said as Barton affirmed him. ”You get rid of that right now. You don’t take drugs to get rid of it. It doesn’t take psychology. That promise right there will get rid of it.”

Barton added that many biblical warriors “took so many people out in battle,” but did so in the name of God.

“You’re on an elevated platform up here. You’re a hero, you’re put in the faith hall of fame,” Barton said. “… When you do it God’s way, not only are you guiltless for having done that, you’re esteemed.”

I was told many similar things in a slightly different way at church. It got into my head. I refused to work with physiologist or listen if they contradicted what I was told in any way. It got worse. Separating myself from church provided relief over time. But like so many things it only treats the outer symptoms. I went back to church to please the ones I love. What I found is much to love, but also frequent dogma and more guilt layering if not in full compliance with obedience to X doctrine, belief or responsibility. Even if you are doing your best, it’s not good enough. I my case they push and push and push some more. Eventually believing in doing so control over stewardship will be maintained.

I learned I was far from the only one, where as before I felt completely isolated. But I didn’t know where to look or who to turn to. It was in fact the source of my suicide attempts. The condition—completely active in a situation where I was different then the presided way of being. I was told who to be, what to do, what my worth was based in what condition(obedience and full compliance to god through the rules interpreted). My entire life was completely out if my control, or so I though. It was only that way because I was lead to believe it was “for my own good”.

Because I was trapped in the situation or lead to believe my life was worthless if I was authentically me and not completely living my pre-assigned life. Worth was based off of giving all your will to god… Which was placed as the interpretation of all we should do to please god by following the brethren. My worth was placed there in. But I was different, it showed. As a result people started to “take charge” in an attempt to control the “outcome of giving all

My will to god and not seek the welfare of others through the worlds ways”.

Anyway that’s how it started with me. I live in that environment for over 20 years.

Today I try to give people the respect I never received. To give them freedom to live by the dictates of tiger own conscious so far as they don’t physically or emotionally harm others.

Today I deal with it by placing(even though I have many similar beliefs) no high value in belief. Belief simply isn’t important to me anymore and I’m tired if playing this game where it’s the most important thumbing the world.

Today I deemphasize less importance on belief and more in good works. Not as an authority figure defines, I seek not authority nor to be authoritative. I seek good fruit best on evidence of said fruit around me and others. I have learned to trust myself to conduct my own test without the need for approval by others.

The trouble is, I encounter people every Sunday who suggest that idea is blasphemous and I need to submit to the will of god by submitting to his servants.

I hold by this truth more then any other today.

Quote:

That a true parent and child relationship lies not in subduing to your will or wants for the child. But in teaching and helping them grow independent(not codependent). In helping to find themselves and who they and not what you would like or want them to be. To nurture that. To rejoice in it. To accept them for who they are and not what they can do for you or your heritage or dynasty.

That is the preferred way I view god. Because that is the god I would praise. I have no seeds in me that sprout good for an authoritarian type god. Who’s will we must do weather good or bad for us. And to endure it our entire life. I can’t love such a parental figure in earnest.

I find life worth living again in that context. I realize if I want it to babe that way I start with me and grope fully help others along the way. There is no greater happiness then to serve others on your own terms and in your own way. That service is something you can truly own. Because it truly came from you.

It came from the inside out and not the outside in. It’s truly you. Not something dictated, or dictated how. But something in your own time and your own way. You own it.

[Anonymous]

Amazing posts with amazing insights. Thanks.

convert1992 wrote:

who wants to be called to “coordinate” things that half the ward doesn’t want to do

Trust me, it’s even worse when you get those callings when you’re in the half of the ward that doesn’t want to do those things.

Forgotten_Charity wrote:

Because I was trapped in the situation or lead to believe my life was worthless if I was authentically me and not completely living my pre-assigned life.

I’ve had the same experience. I won’t go as far as to say that I was lead to believe that way but that attitude was certainly my takeaway as a result of being in the environment.

A one size fits all model is often presented in church. If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? The organization/correlation efforts of the church takes it a step further: you are a foot, you are a hand, etc. with little to no consideration that the assignment may not be a good fit. Certain callings may even do more harm that good for the member, a member struggling with fulfilling a calling can silently suffer debilitating feelings of inadequacy. I speak from experience on that one.

I find one of the more difficult things is interfacing with black and white attitudes. These can be found anywhere but participating in organized religion all but guarantees interaction with the black and white world.

Sundays are stressful. Many talk of batteries being recharged but I find little rest on Sundays. Sundays are a day to be endured, a day to survive. The sad thing is that it really doesn’t have to be that way and all that tells me is that there is something I need to change to make Sundays a day of rest for me. It can be hard with responsibilities, extra meetings, reporting numbers, having to account for the agency of other adults, etc.

P.S. I resort to the bold, italicized, underlined text because for whatever reason I have difficulty distinguishing text that is only italicized or only bolded from normal text on this site. It must be an eyesight thing with me… but at the same time I don’t have issues on other sites. Maybe it’s the font choice or something.

[Anonymous]

This is a great topic. A little background. In 2006-7 I served in Iraq. I saw a lot of disconstruction and some death and the disruption of many lives. I did not directly cause any of it but at the time it still got to me because much of it could be avoided. When I first got there I thought that the Americans were the good guys and we were doing what God wanted us to do to free the Iraqi people. I don’t want to discuss the rightness or wrongness of war but I did come back disillusioned from the experience. I had a hard time adjusting to some things and had some bad dreams. I went to the VA and was told I had PTSD. I went to counseling and was put on medication. One medication stopped nightmares. Fast forward a few years to a faith crisis and many of the same thoughts and feelings are there. Instead of talking about war with the therapist we end up talking about religion. Saturday nights trigger insomnia and anxiety. A few weeks ago I ran out of the prescription for the nightmares and I have had some dreams about Iraq but also many of my dreams involve church and coming out to everyone and the rejection of not being a faithful member.

I guess I am saying that I believe PTCS is real and does need to be taken seriously.

[Anonymous]

Okay – this is freaky, I was just going to do a write up and link for this – and here it is. I love this piece. Thanks M&G for starting it here.

[Anonymous]

church0333 wrote:

This is a great topic. A little background. In 2006-7 I served in Iraq. I saw a lot of disconstruction and some death and the disruption of many lives. I did not directly cause any of it but at the time it still got to me because much of it could be avoided. When I first got there I thought that the Americans were the good guys and we were doing what God wanted us to do to free the Iraqi people. I don’t want to discuss the rightness or wrongness of war but I did come back disillusioned from the experience. I had a hard time adjusting to some things and had some bad dreams. I went to the VA and was told I had PTSD. I went to counseling and was put on medication. One medication stopped nightmares. Fast forward a few years to a faith crisis and many of the same thoughts and feelings are there. Instead of talking about war with the therapist we end up talking about religion. Saturday nights trigger insomnia and anxiety. A few weeks ago I ran out of the prescription for the nightmares and I have had some dreams about Iraq but also many of my dreams involve church and coming out to everyone and the rejection of not being a faithful member.

I guess I am saying that I believe PTCS is real and does need to be taken seriously.

I get weird in these kind of subjects. Mostly because I want to help others but am apprehensive about posting certain info I never share with others/or have yet to share. So I apologize if I share information that I latter delete.

In my contact with quite a few physiologist.. There was mixed feelings of ..is it really different to get its own term and not just call it PTSD. There seems to be growing evidence that it is very similar but with some unique treatment involved.

2–it is such a hot button topic because it revolved around a perceived threat to “freedom of religion” that the mere mention sparks anger in many public and religious circles. So it’s not a field many want to risk their reputation or practice on.

3- there is no training or tools widely available. Most don’t even know how to address it yet. Like anorexia in its infancy diagnosis stage…it was at one time to be made up without anyway to properly treat or diagnose.

Well the same was true for IBS(irritable bowl syndrome) and others.

4- phycologist had thought if you don’t like what is being taught, just walk away.

As many of us know, it’s not that simple, many get conflicted with bout the good and the dogma experienced.

We don’t have the proper tools to deal with high stress and pressure and conformity as those with natural talents or different personality types. They are finding this out. But still in its infancy yet.

The question regarding treatment. This is the hot button topic as well as the perception in the western world that religion can do no wrong at at worst be just a little benign.

Is like saying democracy can do no wrong. We all can do wrong if we desire control over an outcome or environment.

Mention some of the bad effects if democracy in the wrong circles and you’ll get the same reaction as this topic without bringing it up.

Apparently blaming self for nearly 30 years was not abnormal in my situation. Apparently it is quite common for people to do this especially when reinforced to do so.

I try to leave the church out if this as in pointing fingers. It’s not a LDS per say but in issue in dogma meets pressure and repetition with certain teachings in any religion or government, culture.

But with religion it gets more complicated with the fear of after life effects as opposed to the others that end in death.

I have tried to approach this by negating the fear being at peace loving to the best of my ability a good fruit life.

It turns out this isn’t enough. I recurve pressure to do more then this. And serve in callings that are in direct conflict with the center of my personality. I try to loving explain but to no avail. Over time that is when I start to become self destructive again. I want to avoid it, but at this point I have seen that may not be possible yet.

Trying to please others while remaining true to yourself in a very long term predicament doesn’t bear forth good fruit.

On one hand you make them happy, and yourself shamed. On the other you feel happy on the inside but shamed on the outside. Doesn’t appear to be a winning scenario either way.

Going to church is like Russian roulette. It’s exhilarating when all goes well. But if you happen to go on the bad speech or talk day and with the right internalizing or echoing personality. The negative effects can carry for days or weeks afterward.

Having a great sermon can lift one up in spite of that. But having another hot button talk before your even over the first trying to get it out if your system will pile it up and poke the stress and anxiety before it can be dissipated.

[Anonymous]

What I have learned so far.

It’s been hard to counteract over 20 years of dogma and repetition in certain subjects.

The biggest is self worth. In certain circles, especially orthodox religion, one can hear that who they are is a son of god and brother of Christ. Nothing wring with that. But when it is placed as your identity, when it is taught as all of who you are and what your worth(as in my case). You never really find yourself or your passion. You become completely dependent someone to tell you who you are. If you try to engage in different fields that can be seen as threatening or touching on similar issues in the domain or giving time and energy to find yourself or your talents that take away from the time required in order to obtain forgiveness and worthiness(well that’s destructive). I do hear a lot of lesson lately on obedience.

It is usually taught like this. The only thing we have to give god is our “will”. So therefore this life is all about giving god your will and obedience, every once. Then you can have “worth”. But god isn’t hear to tell you how or what to obey so we have proper authority which will harken onto. In as much as you listen and comply you will be rewarded and have enough worth for celestial glory. In as much as you do not comply you will be cast off and be of no worth to god to be trodden under the footsteps of man.

That’s a bread overview(I try to steer it away from the worth when taught but it’s pretty clear it will be what it will be).

Obedience is a fine trait, when done with the dictates of your own conscious. But to tie it to worth or heavenly fathers love and acceptance is damaging mentally. As well as it teaches codependency on the church. Or brethren. Which is not healthy either(codependency not the brethren).

It needs more study but codependency is not good fruit bearing. Even in the context of church. Neither is giving all your will to someone healthy(especially someone you don’t remember). It’s a touchy subject. Those involved can take it as in attack when all your trying to do is live happily and healthy.

A recent talk given on happiness– many people volunteered what makes them happy and it ranged all over the place.

But not to long it…it was brought back that happiness is nothing more then our fairy in Christ and the church and our work for both…..that’s very limiting. It is what I was taught and used to believe but strangely didn’t have happiness under that construct. That’s can cause in many personalities a massive guilt spiral. Guilt for feeling happy outside if those presided terms. Like your feeling happy and then very Fujitsu about feeling happy about something that’s bot related to serving or repenting. Guilt for feeling happy serving others outside or for-filling your spark or calling I life that lies outside if that.

Guilt for even sharing what was the wrong “happiness” answer. And then reinforced by leadership.

This isn’t a church issue per say as much as a teaching issue. In self worth and guilt. In when how and why to be happy to feel self worth and when not to. I think that’s the crux if it. When we let others tell us, when we believe that we only have a right to feel good or happy and when or when to feel shame. It will bounce off of some people, just like words. Others it sticks to and eats away at over time and becomes very hard to dislodge or become unconditioned. Because so much happens on a subconscious level. Even when your not “rating yourself” a persons subconscious can be after the manner taught .

I apologize for this long post. Just something I have been talking about for awhile with the therapist and is input into the broader studies of related subjects.

[Anonymous]

Forgotten_Charity wrote:

Going to church is like Russian roulette. It’s exhilarating when all goes well. But if you happen to go on the bad speech or talk day and with the right internalizing or echoing personality. The negative effects can carry for days or weeks afterward.

I don’t think that I can fully know how you feel on this topic. I have dealt with anxiety but it sounds like what you are describing is more. I remember a poster that was recovering from anorexia and now years later the wearing of garments were triggering her body dismorphia. Just as in her situation, I recommend taking whatever steps are neccessary to maintain and preserve your mental health. I know that this is easier said than done and any attempt will be done imperfectly. I still believe that the effort is worth it.

Your flawed friend,

Roy

[Anonymous]

Forgotten_Charity wrote:

phycologist had thought if you don’t like what is being taught, just walk away. As many of us know, it’s not that simple, many get conflicted with bout the good and the dogma experienced. … Apparently blaming self for nearly 30 years was not abnormal in my situation. Apparently it is quite common for people to do this especially when reinforced to do so. … Going to church is like Russian roulette. It’s exhilarating when all goes well. … having another hot button talk before your even over the first trying to get it out if your system will pile it up and poke the stress and anxiety before it can be dissipated.

First of all, many thanks to church0333 for your service to America. (I am a Republican FOX News patriot even though in the Church I’ve been called a Communist–that’s how skewed LDS culture is.)

Psychologists and other shrinks, if they’re not LDS, they will not understand that this is not just a religion, not even a way of life. Not for me as a convert, but for those who have grown up in the Church and are culturally LDS and whose extended families are all TBMs, it is a whole different identity plus way of life plus religious dogma. Walking away from it is not that easy, any more than someone who is Jewish could just stop being Jewish. This is not like a Protestant joining another denomination or a Catholic converting to Episcopal. This is why I believe that if it is at all possible, one should stay engaged with the Church on some level because to start all over, like a lonely immigrant in a foreign country, is much harder.

All religious/spiritual systems have this problem with blaming someone because they can’t succeed at whatever the system is teaching. In secular things, if you take a class in something that is talent-based and you can’t pick it up, you just acknowledge that you don’t have that talent and move on. However, if you are teaching something that purports to be universal and someone cannot pick it up, the instinct is to blame the student for doing something wrong.

The truth is that what the Church is trying to get its members to do (have some kind of spiritual/mystical experience that would then “confirm” that the Church is true) is not that easy to derive. The Church teaches a sort of “color by the numbers” approach to spiritualism which is misleading. The people who get it, get it because they had the brain chemistry to feel these kinds of things plus the right environment plus they did a lot of other things correctly. None of this has anything to do with eternal salvation–I am talking rather about spiritual method.

Probably the biggest “lie” is that tithing has anything to do with this beyond the fact that there is a sort of selfishness that a person must overcome in order to be spiritual. This is like the roulette that Forgotten Charity is talking about: yes, paying tithing might be rewarding, but for some it could also exacerbate financial problems which leads to stress and marital conflicts which lead to problems like divorce which then leads to being ostracized in the Church because everyone else is deathly afraid of divorce–the classic vicious cycle.

[Anonymous]

Forgotten_Charity wrote:

Today I try to give people the respect I never received. To give them freedom to live by the dictates of tiger own conscious so far as they don’t physically or emotionally harm others.

Today I deal with it by placing(even though I have many similar beliefs) no high value in belief. Belief simply isn’t important to me anymore and I’m tired if playing this game where it’s the most important thing the world.

Today I deemphasize less importance on belief and more in good works. Not as an authority figure defines, I seek not authority nor to be authoritative. I seek good fruit best on evidence of said fruit around me and others. I have learned to trust myself to conduct my own test without the need for approval by others.

The trouble is, I encounter people every Sunday who suggest that idea is blasphemous and I need to submit to the will of god by submitting to his servants.

That’s why I come here, to encounter people who won’t consider me a blasphemer for these kinds of thoughts.

Thanks for the post, mercyngrace.

[Anonymous]

I really like the quote from FC that I’ll rephrase here: “Worth should not be based on condition (obedience and full compliance through the rules interpreted.)”

I have no doubt that there is a God who loves us and does so without condition. I believe that there are certain expectations He has for us, but it comes down this one: We do what we can with what we have. I don’t want to try to meet others’ expecations, only His and I believe he understands our challenges. We do the best we can.

[Anonymous]

I’ve had the repeated nightmares from my church experience many times. They last for about a week or more, and then they go away.

Now, my biggest stressor is the outright indifference you feel. No nightmares, but you quickly realize you are part of the community only when you are behaving a certain way, showing high levels of commitment, etcetera.

[Author]

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