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I’m not sure if this question has been discussed recently, but if it has, please link me to it. My question is, what is why did we need to come to earth? The church thinks it has the answers that it’s to get a body and become godly people. I’m going to ask a lot of questions, but I don’t expect them to all be answered individually, I’m just asking them to share with you my current questions and see if anyone has any thoughts. Body: if the purpose of coming to earth is to get a body, what does that mean for bodies that are deformed or missing limbs and such? Does God just fix them when they come back to heaven, and if that’s the case, doesn’t that mean he could easily just have made us bodies without us coming to earth for them? And why do we even need bodies? Why couldn’t we just stay spirits if we’ll eventually be Gods as the church thinks? Why does a God need a body?
To become godly people: If this is the reason we come to earth, why do some people come with disabilities that prevents them from really experiencing life? Maybe some people with disabilities will just remember what was around them and still learn even though they were mentally disabled at the time, is one thing I have thought of. What about children who die? Did they experience enough for being a god one day? And what about babies who are miscarried or stillborn, or die as infants, why did they come to earth when they didn’t even have time to learn anything here?
It kind of invalidates the answer we have as to the reason why we’re here, doesn’t it? If we have some sort of physical disability preventing us from taking advantage of our probationary state what happens? We get a fixed body in the resurrection but then we didn’t learn the lessons in life due to the disability. It’s a strong case for the probationary period being one big waste time or for going back and doing it all over again. Dusting off my orthodox hat…
If everyone had perfect bodies we’d miss out on lots of opportunity for growth. Dealing with our own disabilities and shortcomings and dealing with the disabilities and shortcomings of others is what makes life, life. How much could we grow in a vacuum without all those challenges?
Another more orthodox answer might be “we live in a fallen world.”
There are other questions. Why do we need to grow? Or even, what is growth?
Your questions are a good argument for multiple mortal probations – the Mormon equivalent of reincarnation. The longer I live, the more I see the reason for life and living and bodies as an opportunity to join together. Religious leaders might call it “Joining the body of Christ” What do we learn through having bodies? We learn physical sensations that can help us learn empathy. The struggles of life can either bond us together as people or serve to separate us. Maybe the goal is to bind us together as one people. Mental illness, addictions, and other forms of emotional and physical suffering are often alleviated by socialization. The studies about addictions being healed through socializatiin are stunning.
Maybe we are not on individual journeys. Maybe the goal is to see how many people you can bond with and take with you. That would certainly fit into some of JS’s sealing practices. Simple things get distorted and human weaknesses cause pure things to be desecrated, but the basics of friendship, kinship, and mutual support seem to be common goals in every life.
I think there’s much more to this “natural man” idea than is generally taught in the scriptures, perhaps because few understand it at all and even then not to any great extent. I believe sexual desire/attraction is something purely physical and not something experienced by the spirit on its own without the physical part. There are probably other “natural” desires or tendencies which also can’t be experienced without the body – hunger, for instance. I actually believe the “test” is for us as spirits to control the “natural man” and learn to overcome those natural tendencies, desires, etc., associated with the physical body. In other words, I believe there are things the spirit cannot experience without the body. However, I also think we conflate some things because we don’t understand the relationship and purpose between the body and the spirit. And, from a purely orthodox point of view, physical disability or ailment is part of the “test” (I personally don’t fully agree with that idea since I think we make more of the test than it is). That said, I think Satan gets credit for much of the tendencies of the natural man. I don’t believe there are supernatural beings (“Satan’s army” for example) who influence our thoughts. I also don’t believe there’s anything to the idea that our resurrected bodies are anything like our current bodies and that the two are unrelated if there even is a physical resurrection.
All of this, of course, is the gospel according to me.
Always Thinking wrote:I’m not sure if this question has been discussed recently, but if it has, please link me to it. My question is, what is why did we need to come to earth? The church thinks it has the answers that it’s to get a body and become godly people. I’m going to ask a lot of questions, but I don’t expect them to all be answered individually, I’m just asking them to share with you my current questions and see if anyone has any thoughts.
Body: if the purpose of coming to earth is to get a body, what does that mean for bodies that are deformed or missing limbs and such? Does God just fix them when they come back to heaven, and if that’s the case, doesn’t that mean he could easily just have made us bodies without us coming to earth for them? And why do we even need bodies? Why couldn’t we just stay spirits if we’ll eventually be Gods as the church thinks? Why does a God need a body?
To become godly people: If this is the reason we come to earth, why do some people come with disabilities that prevents them from really experiencing life? Maybe some people with disabilities will just remember what was around them and still learn even though they were mentally disabled at the time, is one thing I have thought of. What about children who die? Did they experience enough for being a god one day? And what about babies who are miscarried or stillborn, or die as infants, why did they come to earth when they didn’t even have time to learn anything here?
I like that the LDS teachings elevate the body. It is a wonderful thing to be respected and honored.
I like that LDS teaching promote growth or progression. We should always be learning and striving.
Quote:What about children who die? Did they experience enough for being a god one day? And what about babies who are miscarried or stillborn, or die as infants, why did they come to earth when they didn’t even have time to learn anything here?
JS taught that the spirits of children who die essentially were already more advanced to begin with and needed less of a mortal growth period. The church does not have any official position on miscarried or stillborn children. We do not know if they have spirits or if they count as living souls until after they take their first breath.
This is a hasty reply since I can only “sneak” on here when my kidlets are not around…and I am sure they will soon find me. 
But, I’ve always felt that it isn’t JUST a body that we need.
More like, what we DO with the challenges life outside of heaven throws at us.
Meaning, we can learn to be kind, charitable, loving, forgiving, etc. whether we have 2 legs or 4.
I guess we need a body built for earth to live outside of heaven.
That body obviously doesn’t have to be an exact copy of everyone else.
But that body allows us to live here and experience the trials that we need for growth.
My current challenge is actually pulling myself out of bed at 5am to wake ALL of my kids up to take just two to seminary. My body is screaming at me to shut my eyes again…I then really try to be patient and kind with my brood as I wake them up amidst their own gripes. So…
Anyway,
Perhaps those with mental handicaps will have a different “curriculum” for earth.
Maybe they won’t have to learn how to juggle bills, but perhaps (for example) their schooling here is meant for sensory experiences…hot, cold, comfort, joy, etc.
Always Thinking wrote:My question is, what is why did we need to come to earth?
For me, it is about gaining experience.
The analogy would be that the pre-earth life was a time to study and choose, but earth life was a time to do and gain experience.
This would be similar to my daughter in university learning and choosing what her career is. But she still has to go get a job to apply what she studied, or figure out life is different and there are other ways to live than how she thought she wanted to have a career when in university. She needs experience. There is no other way.
The body stuff…I just don’t know. I don’t buy the fact that some are so righteous that they just came, got a body, the baby dies and they leave. I’ve always rejected that even though i think people say it as a way to console their emotions. I’m sorry for those who have had great loss. But it doesn’t make sense to me. Spirits need to come to earth to get experience, not bodies.
I like the analogy that Patrick Mason put forward a few weeks go saying that many in the church (and even the church itself) put too many non essential things into the truth cart and eventually it tipped over. I do fell like I have had to start over and so far the only thing I have put back into the truth cart is that I have a hard time believing in any God that isn’t a really loving God – otherwise we are doomed – period. I would say that I have learned there are some things you can’t learn until you have gone through them. The death of a sibling in your teens, the death of your parents, the heartbreak of a failed marriage, … the list goes on. And what I have learned is that we all hurt and the best thing we can do is be there for others even when we don’t fully understand what they are going through. These “trials” I have gone through have given me lots of empathy. I am not sure I would be as empathetic if I had not endured the pain that I have. I think that lesson is something I am just about to put into my cart.
I think having imperfect bodies makes us love the perfect ones we get eventually. I am looking forward to it really, given all the little problems I’ve had to deal with over my lifetime, and among my loved ones. I also think the purpose of this life is sometimes just to experience it. The same way we like to see our kids play sports, go to college, get married. Life can be a lot of fun. And it is a very real place to learn about how to be an effective person. I am not sure about being a “godly” person anymore — I just want to be effective. And long-term effectiveness, in my view, means being good. Evil authoritarians fall — always. Good people are in power for a while, and make changes that sustain themselves for decades after they move on. I love those kind of people. We have one in our community who I heard about before I ever met her. She left a trail of positive achievements that lived on without her as she moved on to new territory. For me, that is part of the reason we are here. My own reason, but one that motivates me extremely. And when I met her she was this tiny woman, humble, endearing, hardworking and effective.
But it’s the ability to act on your environment and other people in ways that create progress, self-actualization, and achievement of vision that makes this world such a great place to be.
And just being here is a good thing isn’t it, to experience it all??
LookingHard wrote:And what I have learned is that we all hurt and the best thing we can do is be there for others even when we don’t fully understand what they are going through. These “trials” I have gone through have given me lots of empathy. I am not sure I would be as empathetic if I had not endured the pain that I have. I think that lesson is something I am just about to put into my cart.
Well said, LH. I also think there is not a “no pain” option for us. Which sucks. But…I don’t know if there is any other way.SilentDawning wrote:But it’s the ability to act on your environment and other people in ways that create progress, self-actualization, and achievement of vision that makes this world such a great place to be.
And just being here is a good thing isn’t it, to experience it all??
Well said. I think most of the time, overall in general, it is.
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