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Frankly, I don’t believe there are many, if any, Old Testament prophecies like what you describe. Seriuosly, even if we take it as inerrant history, can anyone name any that fit that description objectively?
The Old Testament was compiled with a story to tell driven by an agenda – and Jews didn”t and don’t interpret those prophecies the same way Christians did and do (which is a HUGE point) – and even Jesus’ prophecies had to be reinterpreted to keep the possibility alive that they would be accurate – assuming they were from him originally, which is doubtful.
Most Jews, especially from that time, would say to most Christians:
Quote:You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Sheldon wrote:OK, let’s change this around a little, can anybody name a major prophetic pronouncement by a modern prophet that came true? I’m not talking about the general talk that we hear from our 15, but honest prophecies that foretold an event that was not anticipated. Old Testament like prophecies!
I wrote the following in the other thread:
Quote:One of the things that I’ve had to change is my view on prophets. In reading RSR it became apparant to me that JS did not know what was going to happen. I currently do not believe that JS or any of our LDS prophets have been able to accurately predict the future. Looking back I am not sure that any prophet ever has. I believe that TSM is our legally apointed administrative head. I do not believe that he knows things through supernatural means.
It is perhaps a different issue that the church through both formal and informal channels seems to teach that he does (know things through supernatural means).
I really like the book/movie “the Red Tent.” It is a historical fiction fist person account of Dinah – daughter of Jacob and sister to Joseph. I liked it because all the major events were there but told from a different perspective. I could see how someone could later come along and superimpose a divine calling and destiny narrative upon the same storyline. But perhaps, just perhaps the narrative was a little less certain in the living of it.
This is a silly example, in a way, but we just discussed in Sunday School the story of Jesus healing the man who had been born blind. In that story, the Pharisees call the man’s parents in to confirm that he had, in fact, been born blind. After they do so, the Pharisees ask them what they believe about the healing – and they respond, essentially:
Quote:He is an adult, and we weren’t there. Ask him.
The next verse is the fascinating one to me. It says the parents said that out of fear of the Jews, because they didn’t want to get kicked out of the synagogue.
WE DON”T KNOW THAT. What they said was 100% factually accurate and appropriate.
It was written by people long after the fact, and it provides a good jab at the Pharisees. It is a little example of writing history from the vantage point of hindsight – and I view the stories of many, if not most or all, of the major prophecies of the future, in the same way. They served a purpose, but I have no confidence that they are literally accurate.
Old-Timer wrote:This is a silly example, in a way, but we just discussed in Sunday School the story of Jesus healing the man who had been born blind.
In that story, the Pharisees call the man’s parents in to confirm that he had, in fact, been born blind. After they do so, the Pharisees ask them what they believe about the healing – and they respond, essentially:
Quote:He is an adult, and we weren’t there. Ask him.
The next verse is the fascinating one to me. It says the parents said that out of fear of the Jews, because they didn’t want to get kicked out of the synagogue.
WE DON”T KNOW THAT. What they said was 100% factually accurate and appropriate.
It was written by people long after the fact, and it provides a good jab at the Pharisees. It is a little example of writing history from the vantage point of hindsight – and I view the stories of many, if not most or all, of the major prophecies of the future, in the same way. They served a purpose, but I have no confidence that they are literally accurate.
I find that the writer of John is particularly guilty of this. I like the Gospel of John and its message, I’m just saying there are several examples like this found in that book and it’s good to be aware they are there.
Quote:Re: Question about prophetic fallibility
Postby bridget_night » 2015 May 05, 17:02
The problem I have is that some of the stuff Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and other prophets did, we would get excommunicated for, and they did not.
Quote:Re: Question about prophetic fallibility
Postby Old-Timer » 2015 May 05, 22:26
Times change, Bridget.
We want them to do so, so we can’t argue about it happening. We might complain about some specific changes, but people really can be judged only in light of their times.
I feel comforted by the promise in the initiatory ritual that washes me clean of “the sins of this generation.” It gives me hope that the blinders our society bestows on us will be washed away. For example the people involved with the MMM, blacks & the priesthood, polygamy. Today we are surrounded with the mass media spewing negativity, sexuality & violence at every turn. It’s hard to not be influenced by the powerful influences of our culture.
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